Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dogs - General Dog Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 11-24-2012, 09:44 PM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,893
Default

I think she is asking how late, like I have known a few bitches bred up to 7 years but not many any older.
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-24-2012, 09:50 PM
Lyzelle's Avatar
Lyzelle Lyzelle is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,713
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
I think she is asking how late, like I have known a few bitches bred up to 7 years but not many any older.
I guess that depends on the breed, too. With something like a mastiff, you gamble more. They don't live as long and you might not get everything done that you need/want to before you have a small window to breed/not breed.

With something like a Sibe, as long as the bitch was healthy in all regards, I wouldn't worry as much about breeding between 5-7 years old, which gives 5 years to start working and show titles, plus pretty much all health testing can be done by then. It really, really depends on the breed, and also on the individual bitch.
__________________
Zander and HarleyQuinn
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-24-2012, 10:04 PM
Flyinsbt's Avatar
Flyinsbt Flyinsbt is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 886
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyzelle View Post

With something like a Sibe, as long as the bitch was healthy in all regards, I wouldn't worry as much about breeding between 5-7 years old, which gives 5 years to start working and show titles, plus pretty much all health testing can be done by then. It really, really depends on the breed, and also on the individual bitch.
I wound up spaying my bitches after their single litter. In Tully's case, I was going to do it anyway, because I was hesitant about breeding her anyway, I decided to give her one crack at it, and if it worked, good, if not, it wasn't meant to be. And then we had problems with the whelping, so yeah, spayed pronto.

In Tess' case, I kept her intact for awhile after her litter, because I was contemplating another litter from her. Ultimately, I spayed her because her heat cycles interfered too much with our activities. And that is one of the problems of trying to breed and work with the same bitch. Heat cycles are an issue. Okay for conformation showing, though in a coated breed, they cause problems (as does having a litter). For most performance sports, they interfere with training and competition. When I decided to spay Tess, it was because she was in all likelihood going to be in season for World Team Tryouts. And I could have taken her to tryouts in season, it's allowed. But it would mean traveling and staying in a motel with her in season... not all that fun. And I have no idea if she can run agility in season. The club barn I practice in doesn't allow bitches in season. I have a friend who would let me use her barn with Tess in season, and for awhile I was in a class in a private barn where it was allowed, but she had to wear pants. She moved about half speed. I don't know if she moved half speed because of the pants, or because she felt bloated.

So... spayed. And I really regret it sometimes, when I look at the quality of the 2 pups I got from her. But I do have her son, and I've collected on him in case anything happens, so the bloodline won't be lost.

Anyway, all that is another consideration when talking about breeding multiple litters from a bitch. This also means multiple seasons, so it isn't just the time for the litters that you lose, you lose a couple months out of every year (average).
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-24-2012, 10:11 PM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,893
Default

They do seem to try and cycle right when you're going to worlds or the like. LOL

Sloan was scheduled to come into heat during dock dogs worlds but then when we didn't go she didn't come in.

bitch.
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-24-2012, 10:22 PM
Shai's Avatar
Shai Shai is offline
& the Muttly Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,074
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinsbt View Post
Anyway, all that is another consideration when talking about breeding multiple litters from a bitch. This also means multiple seasons, so it isn't just the time for the litters that you lose, you lose a couple months out of every year (average).
Exactly

And it's not just out of age 0 to 10...even saying the dog can really work competitively til age 10 (the plausibility of that is going to vary widely based on how you define competitively...)...figure for most work you're not really working/competing until the dog is 2 or so...then working your way up through the ranks/levels...so now you're down to 8 years at best... Lose two months of the year for heat cycle...which as mentioned ALWAYS has to fall during competition...we don't get to trial much here but Mira's heats fell right over our fall run so we lost three weekends of trials we actually got in to...she's set to go into heat over breed nationals next year so then I get to debate, so I really go and commit to that expense knowing I may have to pull her from everything but conformation and have an in-heat dog in a hotel filled with intact dogs all week...projected heat timing puts her planned puppies right over agility Nationals in 2014...so the soonest we will get a chance to go to nationals is 2015...

And you generally have to get the girl conditioned back up after a litter, normally (there are always exceptions) it's not just sending puppies home and hopping straight back in the ring...

I mean it depends on what you do with the dog...some things you can start earlier and get by with more but having your main competition dog being an intact female plus taking time out for a litter (or four or whatever) is not a small sacrifice. And that's not even talking about the money investment...this is just time...
__________________

ARCHX U-CD Kim MX MXJ NF CL3-SF RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Golden Ditzhund, b. ~Mar'07
MACH ARCHX U-CD Webster MXB MJB RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Flying Houdini, b. ~Jun'07
Mira CD JH MX MXB MXJ MJB CGC WCX -- Princess Cheeseface, b. Jul'09
Lodin -- Crazy Monkeybean, b. Dec'13
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-24-2012, 10:30 PM
Romy's Avatar
Romy Romy is offline
Taxiderpy
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 9,971
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
I think she is asking how late, like I have known a few bitches bred up to 7 years but not many any older.
It depends. Kaia's grand dam was bred for her first litter at 9 years old. Some lines in borzois can take 4-5 years to mature. If you're trying to breed away from osteosarcoma, bloat, etc. that doesn't typically show up until they're older then the best way to do it is wait until they're older. The big drawback is they might die before then, and you only get one or two litters.

Part of it is how many times a bitch has gone into season. Every season they lose some uterine tone. In a breed like collies, they go into season 2x a year starting at 6 months. By the time she's 9 years old she'll have had 18-20 heat cycles. Contrast that with borzois and other primitive breeds that start after 1 year and only have them every 9 - 18 months. That's maybe 6-8 seasons.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-24-2012, 10:32 PM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,893
Default

How hard on a nine year old, giant breed, body is that?
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-24-2012, 10:37 PM
Romy's Avatar
Romy Romy is offline
Taxiderpy
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 9,971
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
How hard on a nine year old, giant breed, body is that?
Tig did great, she did end up having a c-section because one of the puppies was a moose. That can happen at any age though. She recovered really well, lived several healthy years after that. Borzois though typically live to 14 years, and I've met several healthy 15 year olds. That's really not typical of a giant breed (one of the reasons I chose this breed) so that breeding strategy might not translate to other giant breeds.

Kaia's aunt was 7 for her first and only litter. They scheduled a c-section because of her age, but she did really well with them too. Had no problems nursing and was a great mom. Both times the main regret was they were only able to get one litter out of them, because the puppies were pretty phenomenal and went on to be really successful.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:13 AM
Mr. Vega Mr. Vega is offline
Active Pup
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringerLover View Post
There's been a lot of talk about breeders and breeding lately. I'm curious about a couple things...

1) If you have not bred, but plan to, what's in your "code of ethics?" Such as, what is the necessary health testing, necessary titles, whatever else that you WILL NOT compromise on for your dog, and/or the stud dog?

2) If you have bred a litter, did you end up compromising on anything? And for what reason?

What are things I wouldn't budge on (as of now)? Hips, elbows, eyes, BAER, DNA profiled.
Titles are just pieces of paper for yuppies to show off to their yuppy friends. A dog can be healthy and stronger than an ox and not have any papers, titles , ribbons, whatever. Dogs ought to have a good once over by the vet before their jeans get passed on. but all this hooey about titles is people promotin themseles.

DNA profile, don't even get me started. You could send a purebred toy poodle blood off and come back with labrador retriever shar pei mix

tell ya what i do do though for my clients -- I keep lots of semen for em. That's how to be successfull in a breeding. keepin lots and lots of semen to send to pepole for artiifical breeding
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:14 AM
OwnedByBCs's Avatar
OwnedByBCs OwnedByBCs is offline
Will Creep For Sheep
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 588
Default

1) If you have not bred, but plan to, what's in your "code of ethics?" Such as, what is the necessary health testing, necessary titles, whatever else that you WILL NOT compromise on for your dog, and/or the stud dog? Well, I have bred, but basically my dogs are required to have Good or better hips, normal elbows, CERF clear, CEA/CL/TNS tested clear (and I have never bred a carrier, nor do I plan to unless I have to) and BAER normal. I don't care about titles myself, but I will not breed a dog who has not been thoroughly worked on sheep. I would prefer to see the dog work myself, but sometimes I have to use a dog who lives very far away and I have to go off of videos and trial results. Perhaps one of the most important things to me is a great pedigree. I breed Border Collies from English and Scottish lineage, and that definitely starts out my search. I want to know pedigree information, because I know Border Collie pedigrees inside and out, and I have an idea of what lines will best compliment my dogs.

2) If you have bred a litter, did you end up compromising on anything? And for what reason? I guess you could say the litter between Pirate and Fiona is somewhat of a "compromise". I normally wouldn't be ok with breeding two white factored dogs, but my reasons are: 1. Both of them have such strong pigment, neither are "true" split faces. I am confident that the puppies will be fairly dark. 2. There are no two dogs who are more suitable for each other in temperament, structure and working ability. Fiona is soft where Pirate is strong, Pirate is angulated where Fiona is straight, and they both have the most fantastic temperaments. I couldn't justify not breeding them because of their markings.

Generally, I think a lot of people think I don't require enough from my dogs when I breed. Titles don't mean much to me, because I've been in the competition world (conformation, performance and working) to know that titles are mostly just incredibly expensive letters. I want to see work- that is what my breed is good for- but it doesn't matter to me if that was in a trial or at a farm. But... thats just me
__________________

www.brigadoonbordercollies.com
http://brigadoonbc.wordpress.com/

Do you want your dog to respect you because you demanded it, or because you truly earned it?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:24 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site