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  #21  
Old 11-19-2012, 10:00 PM
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CharlieDog CharlieDog is offline
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In my case, the breed to me is more important than the breeder. Just like was said, I'm buying a dog. If they're producing what I want, with the health clearances I want, I'm willing to over look a few things. There are things like crappy contracts that will make me look elsewhere though. If I want breed A, but was also looking at breed B, then whomever was closest to my ideal at the time would be who I'd go with.

That said, if the two breeds were not similar it would be more up to what exactly I was looking for.

For example if I was looking at Dutches and Labradors, I'd have to make a decision as to what I want. Because they're both so different in terms of what I want from those breeds, the dogs produced/lines ect are so much more important to me.

But if they were similar, as Mals/Dutchies/some GSDs, then the contract, health clearances and what the breeder does during the litters early life/as well as type of dog they're producing becomes more important.




I feel really strongly about breeds though. I'm not likely to seek out a Mal if I want another Dutchie, though it's possible if the breeder has both breeds. I'm also not likely to get a GSD if I wanted a Mal, even though they're really similar (in certain lines. I swear Knox is a Malinois parading around as a GSD. He's worse than some Mals I've known, actually). I have a few breeds I want to own still, but most of them are similar.
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  #22  
Old 11-19-2012, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
What if it's not that the dogs don't fit, it's more of an ethical line? I suppose that varies from person to person. In breed A it's more of a 'not producing the kind of dog I want', or 'not a contract I want to deal with' (aka can't show in what I want to show in), or 'fairly large ethical issue'. Does that change anything?
Why would you go to a breeder thats not producing the type of dogs you want? I dont understand that part.

The contract thing depends. I will not have a breeder telling me what I can cant cant compete in but I can deal with a contract that requires me to s/n at by a certain age or telling me that I have to get x-rays at two.

Ethical issue again depends.
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  #23  
Old 11-19-2012, 11:00 PM
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The breeder and the breed are very important to me. I had a few breeds in mind, but both would have fit the bill very nicely, but what I really connected with was the breeder, their breeding policies. And I just freaking loved her dogs and what she was breeding. And well I felt the dogs she was producing would fit into my lifestyle just perfectly.
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  #24  
Old 11-20-2012, 10:08 AM
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Breed before breeder for me. Unless you are having training issues, working with the breeder as a mentor situation, or have to return the dog, in reality, you are done with a breeder after you get the pup. If there is one or two things about them that doesn't really sit well with you, then you either keep looking, or deal. I don't think because you don't like one breeder you should drop the project breed.

If you like the dog and the breed, then you may or may not return to that same breeder.
If there are breed tendencies that show up that you don't care for, I would say then you would start looking at other breeds.

Even if two breeds are similar, they are still different. That is why they are SEPARATE breeds.

That was a jumbled mess.. but that is my thoughts. No personal attacks meant.

BTW, I'm fighting the internal battle as well.
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  #25  
Old 11-20-2012, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Linds View Post
I'm living with the dog, not the breeder so having the kind of dog I was looking for has way more weight than if the breeder is someone I like. Now, I do have my lines I won't cross even for my ideal dog but they are few and far between.
This. In the end, I have to be happy with the dog that I'm spending the next 10-15 years with.
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  #26  
Old 11-20-2012, 10:52 AM
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Without reading all the replies:

It would depend on how similar the dog breeds are. If I'm choosing between a lab breeder and a golden breeder, and I'd prefer to have a dog with longer hair and a slightly softer temperament, but I liked the lab breeder a lot more, I'd get a lab.

if I'm choosing between a lab and a chessie, and the lab breeder isn't ideal and the chessie is, but I'm not sure I'm prepared to deal with the guardiness and attitude of a chessie, I'm still getting the lab.

If you're choosing between a working BC breeder and a show aussie breeder, that's gonna be a big difference, and some of the qualities you like in the breed might be less prominent. If you're choosing between an aussie breeder and BC breeder who both breed sports dogs or work their dogs on cattle, the differences are going to be much more subtle.
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  #27  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:07 AM
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Erm.. I think I was confused by the question.

I thought the question was.. is the BREED (general breed covered by breed standard.. AKA: ALL golden retrievers for example) More important than the BREEDER (As in, more specifically, the specific lines/type of dog this breeder is producing of that breed)

In that way, totally the breeder. breed standards are big and I'd rather have a golden retriever from a breeder I KNOW is breeders dogs that suit me then a lab because the breed standard says I would like them from a breeder that is breeding toward something else (like for sports for example) Breeds to me are vague and depend very much on breeders themselves.

Now, if we are saying BREEDER vs. DOG.
Of course,dog. You aren't living with the breeder. That said, I highly highly highly doubt I would ever go to a breeder I didn't like. There is so much that I love about having a breeder that I can talk to and I like... It would take a lot for me to give that up.
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  #28  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:23 AM
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I've had this debate going on inside my own head for the past year and especially again in the last week. I don't know that there is a right or wrong answer. I can find pros and cons to both.

And oddly enough, I was just having almost this exact conversation with my mom last night just to see what her feelings were on the situation, and then like 10 minutes later I checked Chaz and found this thread, haha. It's been a very interesting topic.

I thought about it from this perspective, which I think is a bit different from what you're describing, but still sort of similar maybe: My next dog will almost certainly be my last dog until Dance is gone, and with any luck, that will be a minimum of another ten years from now. She's still young, full of life, and appears to have some very long lived, healthy, energetic relatives thankfully. So as much as I love Tollers and adore a certain Toller breeder and would be more than proud to own a dog from said breeder (she is everything I love in a breeder, we clicked really well, and her dogs are perfect to me), I don't want to miss out on a Koolie eventhough I don't like the Koolie breeder's ways of doing things nearly as much. I couldn't find a breeder of that breed at all that did all that I know the Toller breeder does. But regardless, I decided to try for a Koolie, because I don't want to be craving one in 5 years if I went for my tried and true Toller again.

So I chose just a breed with a much less ideal breeder who does produce really nice dogs over a breeder I love and breed I love who also produces really nice dogs. The dog is who I will be living with for the next 10+ years, and while a breeder is very important to me, if I went with what I consider to be the best kind of breeder (for me), I'd probably never have a Koolie and would stick with Tollers. And I couldn't complain about that, but I don't necessarily want to just stick with one breed without trying for another first.

My situation is a little different in that I do like both breeds nearly as much as the other. And if I'd gone with another Toller, I could have the whole package: A stellar breeder and a superb dog of a breed I can't get enough of. But if I went for that entire package, what if I missed out completely for the next 10 or more years of another breed that I also like?

I still don't really know if choosing breed over breeder is the best choice. Hence why I was talking to my mom about it last night. If you'd asked me last year, I probably would have definitely chosen the breeder route. I've already experienced a fantastic breeder/owner friendship as a result of getting the Dobermans, and I do really like it. But I also don't want to miss out on another breed. It's a conflicting situation to be in. It'd be different I think for me if the two breeds I was interested in shared the same views and values. But Tollers vs Koolies is like two different worlds. If Koolie puppy doesn't work out temperament wise though chances are that I will end up choosing the breeder route and wait for a Toller next year.

With that said though, I've also experienced trying to go for a breed/breeder route and that didn't work out as I'd planned in the end either. So sometimes maybe it is best just to choose a dog/breed vs. trying to go for the entire package. I don't know.
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  #29  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran101 View Post
Erm.. I think I was confused by the question.

I thought the question was.. is the BREED (general breed covered by breed standard.. AKA: ALL golden retrievers for example) More important than the BREEDER (As in, more specifically, the specific lines/type of dog this breeder is producing of that breed)
I think it is that in a way but not as broad. Like you want an ACD but you want one who is worked on cattle plus all these in your breeder, and you are having trouble finding that combination - you can find the right things in the breeder but the dogs aren't worked on cattle, or the dogs are worked on cattle but the breeder says you can't register with and play AKC. So not just generic "any old ACD of unspecified type."

So more do you go with a breeder who isn't ideal, but is producing the kind of dog in the breed you like, OR do you switch to another breed where you can find the breeder and the kind of dog, even though you like the other breed more?
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  #30  
Old 11-20-2012, 12:42 PM
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Fran, I don't think you misunderstood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
I think it is that in a way but not as broad. Like you want an ACD but you want one who is worked on cattle plus all these in your breeder, and you are having trouble finding that combination - you can find the right things in the breeder but the dogs aren't worked on cattle, or the dogs are worked on cattle but the breeder says you can't register with and play AKC. So not just generic "any old ACD of unspecified type."

So more do you go with a breeder who isn't ideal, but is producing the kind of dog in the breed you like, OR do you switch to another breed where you can find the breeder and the kind of dog, even though you like the other breed more?
Yes that. Pretty much exactly that.
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