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  #31  
Old 10-13-2012, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
=D =D =D =D =D =D
We will see, but I am almost betting on it. lol

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As far as "real" agility dogs go, I've never heard negative things about shelties specifically, but there is definitely a BORDER COLLIES ARE THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS around. I sadly know many people who started agility with their pet of whatever breed, got The Bug, and decided they HAD to have a border collie for their next dog in order to be competitive. Trouble is they apparently forget how much time of your lives together you spend NOT competing with your dog, and often they end up waaaaay over their heads with a dog that is not the right match for them. I don't seem to see this happen with shelties... it seems usually the singular "real" agility breed is the BC.
That's really... odd. Considering the worlds teams are usually really sheltie heavy. This year there's 4 BCs and 7 shelties.

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In AKC, most shelties do run either 12" or 16". The smaller BCs run 16" in AKC, and that is why people like smaller shelties who can run 12"; it takes the BCs out of the competition. A few VERY small shelties are in the 8" and I know of some people who are purposely breeding for teeny tiny shelties (ugh) to get into the 8" where your competition is fairly limited, just based on the numbers game. 8" is typically a relatively small class entries-wise. It's kinda gross.
Yeah that's... ugh. They should just get papillons if they want to stay under 11". I've seen a few of these teeny shelties around at shows lately. Are there very many BCs that run 16"? That's really tiny.

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That said Pay is going to be a 16" and so will Pepper should she ever trial, and I'm not worried about it. Placings don't matter anymore since the multipliers for points went away, so I don't care. Besides, Auggie's brother has knocked out many firsts in 16", even down in Louisville with a bajillion BCs and many other fast shelties present. Have a good dog, train well, run well, and you will do well.
Easier said than done, but that is the goal.
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  #32  
Old 10-13-2012, 08:58 PM
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On worlds they just have a 'large dog team', a 'medium dog team', and a 'small dog team'. What jump heights are those? Just curious.

ETA: I need to add I love the picture of Dekka flying. And poor Pan eating dirt there. She's fast though!
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  #33  
Old 10-13-2012, 09:17 PM
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I don't want to get too much into the politics of it (I hate agility politics), but there are BCs running 16" who have no business being in that height class. They get favourable measurements from VMOs who are biased towards BCs, people know who these VMOs are and will seek them out so they can get their dog into a height class they shouldn't really be in to make it easier on the dog. I'm not even talking about dogs who are borderline, I'm talking dogs inches off. Some of these VMOs also measure any non-BC high... so the BC gets WAY lower than it should be and any other breeds gets way HIGHER than it should be...

There are some actual petite BCs who truly belong in the 16" class, don't get me wrong, but there's also fudging going on. A few years ago at a regionals or nationals, I forget which, the judges announced that ALL dogs would be measured before they ran. There were BC people who immediately packed up and left, because they knew they would be caught running far lower than they should have been. They didn't even wait for the measurement to see if they could squeak by... they just up and left.
Funny enough, IIRC, the announcement was actually due to hubbub over Aussies, NOT BCs. =P This was when people were pissed about "mini Aussies" registered as Aussies and running 12".
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  #34  
Old 10-13-2012, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
On worlds they just have a 'large dog team', a 'medium dog team', and a 'small dog team'. What jump heights are those? Just curious.
26, 18, and 14 respectively.

Re: "real agility dogs" -- And at least around here Shelties are "real" agility dogs. We have some world team Shelties (and BCs) in the area including dogs who medalled, U.S. National finalists, etc. So at least around here Shelties are not a "fall-back" breed but are highly respected in their own right.

But really any team who tears it up gets respect. There's a gal with a Beagle who is just super...some top Weim and Dobes...a little spaniel who runs like she's on fire...couple Goldens that are just rock solid and routinely outrun the BCs...

And any team who runs as a team and has fun gets cheered. One of the biggest cheers I've heard recently was for a team who has been struggling epically to overcome some focus issues...they finally had a clean run recently and you would have though someone just earned a MACH...place went wild lol
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  #35  
Old 10-13-2012, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
I don't want to get too much into the politics of it (I hate agility politics), but there are BCs running 16" who have no business being in that height class. They get favourable measurements from VMOs who are biased towards BCs, people know who these VMOs are and will seek them out so they can get their dog into a height class they shouldn't really be in to make it easier on the dog. I'm not even talking about dogs who are borderline, I'm talking dogs inches off. Some of these VMOs also measure any non-BC high... so the BC gets WAY lower than it should be and any other breeds gets way HIGHER than it should be...

There are some actual petite BCs who truly belong in the 16" class, don't get me wrong, but there's also fudging going on. A few years ago at a regionals or nationals, I forget which, the judges announced that ALL dogs would be measured before they ran. There were BC people who immediately packed up and left, because they knew they would be caught running far lower than they should have been. They didn't even wait for the measurement to see if they could squeak by... they just up and left.
Funny enough, IIRC, the announcement was actually due to hubbub over Aussies, NOT BCs. =P This was when people were pissed about "mini Aussies" registered as Aussies and running 12".
It's not just BCs though...it's just the people who've been in it long enough to get by with this stuff often have BCs...I can think of several "off breed" folks who've been in it a long time who have ummm questionable measurements. It's always interesting when we're first in for the 24's so I'm at the gate with a bunch of 20s (not counting Preferred dogs) and my FCR's the same height or shorter than a lot of them...granted her measurement is also questionable (but high...she was measured as an overly excited bouncy pup, imagine that...) but I don't think she's any shorter than 22" even...which is the tallest allowed 20" jumping height...
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  #36  
Old 10-13-2012, 09:27 PM
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I'm really kind of struggling with this with Steve at the moment, tbh. He's coming back from his latest groin pull. Right now he's jumping 20". I don't like how he jumps at 20", which tends to be with his head up, flat, and landing almost four-footed. Not always, but sometimes. He'd jump 20" in AKC. He'd jump 20" in CPE. He'd jump 26" in USDAA.

Rehab vet and I have talked a little bit about jump height, but I don't think she's particularly knowledgeable about agility and she doesn't see many sport dogs. And I just don't know what to do with him.

Is his flat jumping style something that's my fault? Maybe. Is it something I can fix? I dunno. We've done a lot of one jump rewarding at the base of the jump to encourage a nice jumping position work since I started him jumping. Probably flyball ruined him *eyeroll*
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  #37  
Old 10-13-2012, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Shai View Post

And any team who runs as a team and has fun gets cheered. One of the biggest cheers I've heard recently was for a team who has been struggling epically to overcome some focus issues...they finally had a clean run recently and you would have though someone just earned a MACH...place went wild lol
This thought just warms me. I can imagine the excitement the team feels and it's wonderful to hear of the support.
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  #38  
Old 10-13-2012, 09:44 PM
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How does the measurement work? I know back when we showed confo I have seen them pull out the stick to measure a big looking dog quite often. There was one male pap that showed around here and he was just under the DQ of 12 inches. They ALWAYS measured him. Don't do that at agility?

It seems really shady that you could get away with that kind of thing. although, my dogs won't have to worry about measuring down. They're in the smallest height anyways.
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  #39  
Old 10-13-2012, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
How does the measurement work? I know back when we showed confo I have seen them pull out the stick to measure a big looking dog quite often. There was one male pap that showed around here and he was just under the DQ of 12 inches. They ALWAYS measured him. Don't do that at agility?

It seems really shady that you could get away with that kind of thing. although, my dogs won't have to worry about measuring down. They're in the smallest height anyways.
For AKC they have VMOs -- Volunteer Measuring Officials. They get trained and measure under the guidance of another VMO for a while before getting certified.

When your dog is at least 15 months they can get measured. If they are less than 2 years old they'll get a temp card and have to be remeasured when they are 2. If over two, you'll get a permanent card.

Dog has to get measured by two VMOs. If those two measurements put the dog in two different height categories, a VMO measurement is required to determine the dog's jump height.

If the dog measured into the highest jump height class, they only need one measurement and do not have to be remeasured at 2...they'll get a permanent card right away.

Once they have the permanent card, they are good to go for their career pretty much. A judge or VMO can at any time require them to get remeasured if they think the dog is in the wrong height class but as far as I know that rarely happens. They can also, as in Beanie's example, decide randomly that all the dogs at a show WILL be remeasured. I've never personally experienced that.

CPE is similar except that I think any judge can measure. My information may be outdated though.
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  #40  
Old 10-13-2012, 09:53 PM
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Or here's the official AKC jump height measuring page, which explains in more detail:

http://www.akc.org/events/agility/jump_height_card.cfm
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