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  #11  
Old 10-09-2012, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sparks19 View Post
Totally agree.

There are fates worse than death. A peaceful end is not the worst thing that could happen.
Except in many places the end is not peaceful. Read up on heartsticks and gas chambers. Do a google search, and you can find articles about animals waking up after being euthanized. I wouldn't call that peaceful at all.
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  #12  
Old 10-09-2012, 06:38 PM
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The major problem is money. Who is going to pay for the vetting, food, and general labor-intensive care for all these dogs and cats? What do you do when there's not enough room to house all these dogs and cats, even when there are dozens and dozens of rescues, shelters, and humane societies in that area that are not only filled to the brim in their own buildings, but in foster homes and even out-of-area fosters/shelters as well? What about the dogs who are dropped off with serious medical issues that would cost thousands to repair? Heartworm? Broken bones? Organ failure?

Then there is time. In our own homes, we take care of anywhere from 1 to 7 dogs every day along with work, school, housework, lawn work, errands, etc. How would any one person find the time to add on another 30-100 animals per person? How would any system find the 30-100 people to cover the thousands of animals existing in the system? What vet can take the time out of their already busy career to provide intensive care to hundreds of cats and dogs per day? How can they afford the gas, medications, and labor when they are often forced to lower rates for rescues, shelters, and humane societies?

Euth'ing is unavoidable in many areas of the country, and there are worse things. I've seen no-kill shelters and rescues so desperate to get the animals out of their dwindling care, that they practically give the animals away to anyone with a pulse and $5.

Improve care and overall efforts for shelters, humane societies and rescues? Absolutely. But euth'ing is just unavoidable in many areas.
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  #13  
Old 10-09-2012, 06:39 PM
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I think it's more complicated than simply there is/isn't overpopulation. In certain areas (Los Angeles is a great example) the shelters don't do enough to promote adoptions, reunite lost/found pets with their owners, or keep pets in their homes. Pet limit laws also don't help.

Some areas have an excess of certain types of dogs and not enough of others. Small dogs that aren't adopted here are often transported to places that don't have any small dogs in shelters, and they find homes fast.

Statistically speaking, more people acquire pets each year than the number that are killed. So it seems to me more of a logistics problem - how do we get these pets into those homes?

Definitely not a simple problem with a simple solution...

IMO if shelters aren't even trying (open for adoptions, open during hours when people aren't at work, listing available animals online, aren't rescue-friendly, etc.), they can't really complain about having too many animals! Not saying that all shelters are like this, but there certainly are many. It's a problem among municipal animal control shelters - not so much with private/nonprofit rescue "shelters" (which I would call those rescues and not shelters - to me a shelter is city/county animal control.)
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2012, 06:43 PM
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Definitely not a simple problem with a simple solution...
^ And THAT is why I haaate the overly simplistic "just do more", "just stop killing", "just start doing _____". IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE!!

Yes, there are many shelters with MAJOR problems. There are shelters with resources who aren't utilizing them. There are areas that are importing animals and don't need to euth for space. But there is NO across the board plan that will work regardless of locale, financial resources, and community support. NONE.

eta: on the impact on shelter staff who must euth - you do realize that a LOT of the issue is the crap that these people get from the public, right? The endless "just stop killing", and "you're murdering animals for no good reason" contributes greatly to the stress of the people who take on this awful job. I have friends who work in those SE shelters and have not hardened their hearts - they don't like that aspect of their jobs, but it's often the horrible things they hear that pushes them over the edge, not the actual act.
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:49 PM
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Have you ever noticed that when there is a high profile case in the news, that people offer to adopt that poor, abused dog in droves, and people donate - in droves? The truth is, when you reach out to the public, genuinely reach out, people will help you. They love to help animals in need. People stay away from municipal animal pounds because they are depressing, because the workers there look at everyone as animal abusing scum, because they are rude, cold, and unhelpful (at least, this is the experience you receive at the shelters in my area). Take away all that, staff the shelter with friendly, helpful, nonjudgemental faces, aggressively market your animals with nice photographs and upbeat, descriptive bios, participate in adoption events in your area, and make your shelter a place where people want to come to adopt and a place that people want to support, and you will have the resources you require.

The no-kill shelter I volunteer for gets donations out the wazoo. There are single donations of $5000 at times to this place. I once helped type up spreadsheets of donations so that thank you notes could be mailed out, and in one month, they had $30,000 in donations! That was December which may make a difference since it is the Christmas season and all, but I know that they get a lot of money from people all the time, and it really isn't that hard.

And honestly, you can't truly improve the care and overall efforts in the shelter until you stop the killing. While the killing of healthy adoptable pets is allowed to continue, the people who work there will distance themselves from the animals because its easier to NOT CARE about something that is going to die anyway. It is easier to slack on disease prevention, why provide more than the bare minimum (if that) when the animal is probably just going to die anyway?
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  #16  
Old 10-09-2012, 06:49 PM
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^ And THAT is why I haaate the overly simplistic "just do more", "just stop killing", "just start doing _____". IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE!!
True. And no kill, or Nathan Winograd's version of it anyway, isn't as simple as "just stop killing" - there are several other things that shelters need to be doing, such as foster programs, adoption outreach, free or low-cost spay/neuter, help with behavior problems...etc etc.
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  #17  
Old 10-09-2012, 06:55 PM
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I think blaming shelters for overpopulation is like blaming cops for crime. It all starts somewhere, but it's easy to blame those who get stuck cleaning up the mess.
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  #18  
Old 10-09-2012, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Sweet72947 View Post
People stay away from municipal animal pounds because they are depressing, because the workers there look at everyone as animal abusing scum, because they are rude, cold, and unhelpful (at least, this is the experience you receive at the shelters in my area). .
Sadly, this is the perception that many people have of the municipal pounds. It's often true, but sometimes it's more complicated. I was a volunteer for an L.A. city shelter, and the staff and volunteers there were great. In such a big city, though, they can only do so much before the administration gets involved, and it's like any government issue - politics and power. It's much easier to get things done in smaller organizations.

What killed me about the experience (er, no pun intended ) was the division between the shelter staff/volunteers and the rescue community. Individuals could and would work together, but generally the rescue community demonizes anyone who works at the shelter and the shelter community then demonizes the general public.

If all sides could put aside the blame and finger-pointing, and work together to find solutions that work (based on data, not opinions), it would be so much better for the animals and the people.

Anyway that's my rant about L.A. I'm sure it's similar in other parts of the country.
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  #19  
Old 10-09-2012, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by sparks19 View Post
There are fates worse than death. A peaceful end is not the worst thing that could happen.
I can say with certainty that a select few are given a peaceful death. So many of them are terrified, probably not given the solution in the vein, maybe even given the solution in the abdomen so they die slowly, in a room full of other dying animals.

While I agree, there are things far worse than death, I think the death a shelter animal faces is far from the picture we all imaging when euthanizing our beloved pets (which can still go awry).
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  #20  
Old 10-09-2012, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyzelle View Post
I think blaming shelters for overpopulation is like blaming cops for crime. It all starts somewhere, but it's easy to blame those who get stuck cleaning up the mess.
THis

I have a friend who was very into the no kill movement and worked really hard to implement it. Did all the steps Winoguard outlines, worked their butts off....guess what, didnt work. They could either stop taking all new animals in (which is what some no kill shelters do) or they would have to make room another way. Sure, stop taking in would let them keep their no kill ideal, but they were smart enough to realize the reality is that then they would be turning away many many dogs who have to go somewhere.

All the advice they pretty much got was well your arent doing it right because if you are, it works. If it doesnt, well something is wrong with you:/ Its a sad reality of the way our current society behaves. Stopping killing is like putting a bandaid on a fetstering wound....it is NOT getting at the root of the problem and is causing more issues.
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