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  #31  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:35 PM
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To stop a dog from dangerous behavior (attacking another dog, person, injuring his/herself etc..) I will do just about anything. I HAVE smacked a dog pretty hard to stop a fight and yanked a dog away from lunging at another dog.
I have also done the reflex "WTF ARE YOU DOING?" reflex a few times but it's more of a HEY! STOP DOING THAT redirection than it is to actually harm the animal (popping the leash to get dogs mouth out of street garbage, spanking on the butt to stop dog from growling at cat, etc..)

I used to be really impatient and get frustrated easily when it came to training.. as Paige said, I don't like that side of myself. I have never looked back at a moment where I LOST IT (yelling, being hurtful, spanking, leash popping and other just negative dog training things) and felt good about it. So I try my hardest to never let that side of me surface. I'm proud to say it hasn't happened in a long long time.
I don't personally think any of it is ok or needed. I prefer to have a really positive working relationship with my dog, where I'm a source of fun..not a source of fear. Animals are far too smart to have to resort to hitting and yelling and slapping to train them IMO if aquariums, zoos etc.. can train WILD ANIMALS using 100% positive methods.. why shouldn't I with my dog?

Like with spanking kids, I'm not saying all of it is abuse. I'm just saying it isn't necessary. Kids, animals etc.. they are much more intelligent when we give them credit for and the relationship we have with them and who they grow up to be is much more affected by how we teach them then we realize.. and I don't think creating kind, intelligent, loving, compassionate natures are ever conducive with hitting or using fear and dominance as a teaching method.
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  #32  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:37 PM
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I've spanked/popped mine a few times out of reflex. Typically when they were being idiots and aggressing at something/someone/me. I don't think I ever actively thought, "I'm going to spank the dog" in those instances, it was just like a "Holy Crap! *smack*" reaction, life if someone was to scare you and you smack them on the face.

I have "spanked" (hard butt tap - I wouldn't call it a spank) Chloe when she is being a turd and being growly over a cat dish. We're passed the point of her actively biting due to a resource, it is more like she's scarfing down cat food/cat poop/trash/whatever as fast as she can and instead of pushing my luck and approaching her head on I go up behind her and "smack" her on the butt to get her to move along.
I'll also do the same kind of "smack" to her muzzle when she is being a turd and won't stop barking. Again, it isn't anything remotely hard...kind of like a head thunk to your immature sibling who is being a dork.

All of the dogs get beat when we play (except for Gracie because she doesn't like it). They get "smacked", "kicked", thrown, body slammed, tackled, etc., etc. and they love it. Cooper's favorite thing in the world is to be booted with a socked foot. LOL
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  #33  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily View Post
Samesies. Management/crisis mode is different than training.

As for the rest of it... I have a temper. I understand frustration. I mean, my god, I work at a daycare/boarding kennel. I have been, at times, frustrated, exhausted, in pain, and absolutely pushed past my threshold for sanity and rational behavior.

We all do things we regret out of anger/frustration, and I am no exception and I am certainly no saint. But I view physical punishment as either the extreme spectrum of management (or self defense), or simply a mistake on the handler's part.

I have gone through a steep learning curve regarding impulse control working in an environment where my buttons get pushed repeatedly by dogs that aren't mine and that I don't have the capacity to actually train. Losing my temper has never, ever given me any satisfaction in the end. Usually I just feel like a douche.

My motto is to be the smarter animal, and defuse conflict instead of escalate it. Or at least to try. I have never, ever come to regret being patient and understanding. Ever. I have, without exception, regretted letting my temper dictate my interactions with animals.

As for formal training, oh HELL no. It doesn't teach them anything except that you can and will cross that line with them, and to be scared of doing whatever it is they were doing when you whacked them. And I view using physical "cues" like popping and swatting as a total failure on my part as a trainer. If I can't get their attention without that, I have some seriously neglected foundation work.

Beyond humane treatment of animals, I've not seen hitting/popping/spanking/slapping/jerking promote much in the way of learning or improved behavior. Lack of behavior, sometimes, but that's about it. And call me cold, but that's also a major motivation of mine. I want effective training strategies, not just those that make me feel better or stroke my ego.
Well why don't you just say everything I was trying to say in a much clearer and more eloquent fashion. Show off.
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  #34  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taqroy View Post
Well why don't you just say everything I was trying to say in a much clearer and more eloquent fashion. Show off.
Well you know, I used my big girl vocab. Like "douche".
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  #35  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily View Post
Well you know, I used my big girl vocab. Like "douche".
Hahahaha! If douche isn't a grown up word I don't wanna be a grown up.
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  #36  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily View Post
Samesies. Management/crisis mode is different than training.

As for the rest of it... I have a temper. I understand frustration. I mean, my god, I work at a daycare/boarding kennel. I have been, at times, frustrated, exhausted, in pain, and absolutely pushed past my threshold for sanity and rational behavior.

We all do things we regret out of anger/frustration, and I am no exception and I am certainly no saint. But I view physical punishment as either the extreme spectrum of management (or self defense), or simply a mistake on the handler's part.

I have gone through a steep learning curve regarding impulse control working in an environment where my buttons get pushed repeatedly by dogs that aren't mine and that I don't have the capacity to actually train. Losing my temper has never, ever given me any satisfaction in the end. Usually I just feel like a douche.

My motto is to be the smarter animal, and defuse conflict instead of escalate it. Or at least to try. I have never, ever come to regret being patient and understanding. Ever. I have, without exception, regretted letting my temper dictate my interactions with animals.

As for formal training, oh HELL no. It doesn't teach them anything except that you can and will cross that line with them, and to be scared of doing whatever it is they were doing when you whacked them. And I view using physical "cues" like popping and swatting as a total failure on my part as a trainer. If I can't get their attention without that, I have some seriously neglected foundation work.

Beyond humane treatment of animals, I've not seen hitting/popping/spanking/slapping/jerking promote much in the way of learning or improved behavior. Lack of behavior, sometimes, but that's about it. And call me cold, but that's also a major motivation of mine. I want effective training strategies, not just those that make me feel better or stroke my ego.
This! Especially the bit in bold
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  #37  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:54 PM
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Having a human reactive great dane did result in me having to be a bit more physical at times than I have ever been with other dogs. Mostly pushing/pulling/grabbing to get him out of a scary situation before we had completely figured out thresholds/triggers. Never hitting. Honestly, the sheer size of him didn't lend me very many options, I couldn't just walk him out of a situation. I never felt good about it, I hated that I had to do it and was so very thankful when LAT and emergency u-turns were usable.

However, like others said, this was managing a crisis not training. If I would've used physical force to train the reactivity out of him, I can guarantee that would've ended badly.
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  #38  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke View Post
I do not think it is ever okay unless you, other people, other animals are in danger.

I definitely lost my temper and have done things I regret, but never felt "okay" about it.
This.
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  #39  
Old 10-09-2012, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai View Post
. When Mira was attacked by that Belgian Sheepdog out of the blue and I was trying to keep that dog off mine until backup arrived....
Did he ever arrive? I'm guessing he was too busy spinning in circles barking.

Yeah, I've totally intimidated, stomped at, and yelled at my dogs out of frustration in the past. I don't take pride in it and make no excuses.

I figure the glory is in the progress.
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  #40  
Old 10-09-2012, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Did he ever arrive? I'm guessing he was too busy spinning in circles barking.
Took me 3 reads, going, "WTF is she talking about?" Then I got it.
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