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  #21  
Old 10-09-2012, 03:56 PM
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I have done (and will do) just about anything to break up a dog fight. I'm not remotely proud of it, but I'd rather have an injured dog than a dead dog.

I have never smacked one of my dogs when we're training. I have pulled on the leash, not hard, it's usually a quick frustration tug and it's always a sign to me that I need to stop and take a break before we keep moving. I did use leash pops and corrections years ago with my sister's dog when trying to work on LLW. It didn't work and I'm not proud of it. Oh, and Murphy had a prong collar for about six months shortly after I got him. I've poked Mu (in the haunches lol) to get her attention before - especially in situations where we can't just back up to get her under threshold.

I dunno. I can't imagine smacking/beating/kicking a dog to get what I want, not with the knowledge I have now. My Dad was a very traditional trainer with our first family dog - she'd get into things, look "guilty", he'd beat her, and the next time she was left out with food, she'd eat it. Now when he leaves food out my mom tears HIM a new one because Max gets into it. It's hard to blame a dog for something that's actually your fault.
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  #22  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:00 PM
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My old dog Spanky got his name for a reason. That dog LOVED a good butt spank in fun. However, so much as give him a dirty look and he'd roll over and pee. Soft dogs have taught me to not be heavy handed. Considering thats all I've dealt with since I am on the don't hit/strike/leash pop unless someone is in harms way and that will stop the behavior.

I try not to judge others too harshly. I know it doesn't fit in over here and thats where my opinion, short of down right abuse, ends.
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  #23  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:01 PM
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For me if I get frustrated I stop and love on yoshi and we play or watch tv. I guess I just don't get the whole train or work with until snapping point.

And I get being frustrated but how many get super frustrated with people? I would hope you could hold back from smacking a random person who had frustrated you. Why would you not do that for something/someone you love?
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  #24  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:04 PM
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I walk away from anyone, person or animal, when I feel the need to get physical out of anger. I don't like that side of myself. I don't let it surface.
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  #25  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:07 PM
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I smack the dogs on the butt from time to time. Usually it's when we've played the "STOP RANDOMLY BARKING AT NOTHING YOU DUMB ASSES" all day long and then they get a spank on the butt and if they really press the issue I break out the water bottle. One of these days I'm certain Belle is going to go right through the sliding glass door. She THINKS she sees something and runs full tilt and jumps at the door with her front feet. ARGH she's going to get herself killed.

So... yes I spank them on the butt from time to time
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  #26  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Shai View Post
As others have said, when you're trying to stop a dangerous situation the normal rules do not apply. When Mira was attacked by that Belgian Sheepdog out of the blue and I was trying to keep that dog off mine until backup arrived...yeah I would never treat a dog that way in any other sort of situation but you do what you have to do in that moment to prevent greater injury.

In training? Oh heck no. In life? I do my best to never need to. First in line to say I'm not perfect but I've worked too hard to have the working and casual relationships I do with my dogs to undermine that in a fit of temper.
^this.
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  #27  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taqroy View Post
I have done (and will do) just about anything to break up a dog fight. I'm not remotely proud of it, but I'd rather have an injured dog than a dead dog.
Samesies. Management/crisis mode is different than training.

As for the rest of it... I have a temper. I understand frustration. I mean, my god, I work at a daycare/boarding kennel. I have been, at times, frustrated, exhausted, in pain, and absolutely pushed past my threshold for sanity and rational behavior.

We all do things we regret out of anger/frustration, and I am no exception and I am certainly no saint. But I view physical punishment as either the extreme spectrum of management (or self defense), or simply a mistake on the handler's part.

I have gone through a steep learning curve regarding impulse control working in an environment where my buttons get pushed repeatedly by dogs that aren't mine and that I don't have the capacity to actually train. Losing my temper has never, ever given me any satisfaction in the end. Usually I just feel like a douche.

My motto is to be the smarter animal, and defuse conflict instead of escalate it. Or at least to try. I have never, ever come to regret being patient and understanding. Ever. I have, without exception, regretted letting my temper dictate my interactions with animals.

As for formal training, oh HELL no. It doesn't teach them anything except that you can and will cross that line with them, and to be scared of doing whatever it is they were doing when you whacked them. And I view using physical "cues" like popping and swatting as a total failure on my part as a trainer. If I can't get their attention without that, I have some seriously neglected foundation work.

Beyond humane treatment of animals, I've not seen hitting/popping/spanking/slapping/jerking promote much in the way of learning or improved behavior. Lack of behavior, sometimes, but that's about it. And call me cold, but that's also a major motivation of mine. I want effective training strategies, not just those that make me feel better or stroke my ego.
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  #28  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:04 PM
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I will use physical punishment for Absolute Sin sort of things like getting into the trash or whatnot. Things that are unacceptable and need to be cut off harshly enough that they NEVER try it again. Everything else just gets verbal punishment because for the breed/dogs I have, its enough. Theyre pretty soft and listen really well. I definitely dont overdo the smacking around and I dont use it for ordinary day to day training "mistakes".
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  #29  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:05 PM
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I was always VERY physical with Zander as a pup. I got him when I was 12. I didn't know anything except what I saw on tv(CM). And I mean it when I say it was a CRASH COURSE. But I'm not necessarily proud of it, because looking back I know it SHOULDN'T have been that way. I don't know if I regret it, though, because he certainly never took me seriously and it was always fun playtime for him! LOL. He was born a brat.

As I got older and participated in forums, I learned other ways of doing things and it's been a steady (although sometimes slow) accent. I've made my mistakes here and there, but I'm not necessarily proud of them. I just learned from the mistake and moved on.

These days, Zander is still an ADHD kid. If I need to do something to get him out of a "OMGTHISANDTHATANDOMGTHAT" mode, I'll do it. It might be a tap on the shoulder, might be holding his mouth shut so he can actually hear me over himself yelling, or whatever. I get his attention in the least stimulating way possible so he can check himself and I can reward him for it. I don't use it as a correction, but just to get his attention so we can step back and redirect.

And then, of course, there's the playtime. Zander is a dirty, dirty player. Not only is he rough, but he is SMART about his playtime attacks. So play time is all about body checks, mouthing(until he remembers he doesn't like anything in his mouth except food), him slapping me, jumping, weaving between my legs, pulling on my pants to knock me over, setting me up for a sneak attack, whatever. We play rough, and I probably "abuse" him more than most people ACTUALLY abuse their dogs. Complete with alpha rolls, biting, kneeing, and me black and blue by the end of it.
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  #30  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pops2 View Post
when the dog is commiting or about to commit an act which could result in death or serious injury of a person, the dog or another animal whose death or injury is NOT desirable, it is entirely acceptable to strike said dog in order to cause an immediate change in said dog's interest in the act.
Yes very much this. I have hit and kicked dogs that were about to kill or attack something (cat, other dog). Its not a matter of training, but a matter of life and limb prevention.
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