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  #11  
Old 09-25-2012, 05:43 PM
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Danefied Danefied is offline
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Originally Posted by Greenmagick View Post
There are so many different styles to teach that I have hard time thinking some dogs (who otherwise lead normal lives) really can't get it. Have you read When Pigs Fly by Jane Killion? She has great ideas in it for the non biddable dogs.
Get out of my brain :P
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  #12  
Old 09-25-2012, 06:41 PM
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Skye is sort of like that..I go back and forth wanting to really buckle down and get some more training going with her, but when I do I end up a little discouraged. She just isn't biddable or motivated by much. The critters lurking along the fence line are way more interesting to her than what I'm doing. I don't think she's slow at all, she just learns differently and there is nothing that is a true reward for her. Maybe if I strapped a squirrel to a remote controlled car..hahaha.

I HAVE met dogs labeled as autistic or mentally challenged. Plenty of them I don't see it. One boarding husky, the owner said the dog couldn't even learn sit. Well..I got the dog sitting on command in a few minutes..walking on a loose lead..I didn't tell them but yeah. There was an episode of Dogtown where Golden Retriever rescue dropped off a GR that they said couldn't be trained to live in a house, was mentally unsound. This guy lived with the dog for a few weeks and the dog was fine. Maybe you just need a different angle with him?
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Old 09-25-2012, 06:44 PM
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I definitely think dogs can be born 'off' and not mentally all there. Why should we assume we're the only species that can have mental handicaps? I don't think I would ascribe that label to a dog like yours that seems to be unmotivated.

I do really think Trey had some sort of mental handicap but it is hard to explain. He was just so bizarre at times and so unable to read other dogs' body language or people body language and would react totally the wrong way very often. He also had no common sense and would not function well at all without tremendous guidance. (I'm talking about a dog that would have something get in his way and he'd get 'stuck' until someone rescued him. Or a blanket on his head would have him motionless forever until someone removed it).

Maybe it was all just fearfulness, I'm not sure. Even our vet was convinced he was not a 100% normal, functioning dog. But he was actually pretty trainable and once he got something, he got it for good.
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  #14  
Old 09-25-2012, 06:51 PM
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I'm positive Backup is "different" no matter how much shaping I do with him.

I love him though, as challenging as he is. LOL
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  #15  
Old 09-25-2012, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danefied View Post
Get out of my brain :P
:P

Seriously though...that book is such a "a-ha" book!
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:29 PM
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Some dogs, it's definitely a training issue. Zander's smartness is way different from biddable smartness. He's a major problem solver. Macie was mastiff slow, but obviously all still there. Same with Goose. Clear temperament problems, but nothing seriously, mentally wrong.

Others, I do believe they *can* be off, usually due to other health issues, though. Tucker the Boxer was probably due to strokes/seizures. Dante's was Thyriod. Indy's was severe dehydration as a pup, possibly nerve damage some time after her mother was hit by a car and before we got her. Or possibly because my mother dropped her at a week old. Who knows.
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  #17  
Old 09-25-2012, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Danefied View Post
No. That video is luring, which is very effective too, but not so much with dogs like rhodies. They see it as a bribe and they lose interest really quickly.

No, free shaping is clicker training where you simply sit, and wait for the dog to offer behaviors. There is no end behavior in mind really, though sometimes end behaviors create themselves. The point though is for the dog to figure out the “game” of how to make the treats happen. For dogs like Malyk (and my Bates) its not just the treats that are the reward, but the problem solving involved in figuring out what behavior will make a click happen.

Have you read any books on clicker training?
I read a generic one lying in the break room at PetSmart when I worked there, but other than that, only Internet articles. I have a whole list of books I plan to get once I am caught up on cash. It's been a rough year for all that.

Either way, I will try the shaping. He loses interest quickly and his brain tends to melt so maybe this will be more interesting for him. He is pretty food motivated to the point where his eyes bug out and he drools, but it's the kind of motivated where he has tunnel vision and is just constantly like "treat treat treat omg treat treat". And then if I don't have the treat on me, he looks at me like "uh, yeah...no." Even though I have taught him I don't have to have the treat on me for him to receive it. He is a pretty difficult dog.
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  #18  
Old 09-25-2012, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danefied View Post

For dogs like this the book “When Pigs Fly” by Jane Killion is a real eye opener.
I've been hearing about this book quite a bit lately. I need to read it.
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Old 09-26-2012, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara! View Post
I read a generic one lying in the break room at PetSmart when I worked there, but other than that, only Internet articles. I have a whole list of books I plan to get once I am caught up on cash. It's been a rough year for all that.

Either way, I will try the shaping. He loses interest quickly and his brain tends to melt so maybe this will be more interesting for him. He is pretty food motivated to the point where his eyes bug out and he drools, but it's the kind of motivated where he has tunnel vision and is just constantly like "treat treat treat omg treat treat". And then if I don't have the treat on me, he looks at me like "uh, yeah...no." Even though I have taught him I don't have to have the treat on me for him to receive it. He is a pretty difficult dog.
If he's that treat obsessed, he probably needs to be doing some doggy zen stuff. Look up "Its yer choice" on Youtube. The Susan Garrett video is my favorite, but there are lots of good examples out there.
Once he understands treats have to be earned, THEN start working on some free shaping - as in 101 things you can do with a box, that kind of shaping - no end behavior in mind. Just asking the dog, what behavior will you offer? And reward for any effort.
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