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  #11  
Old 09-18-2012, 07:21 PM
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I can't wrap my mind around his cult following, and why people defend him so loyally. I don't understand it.

He's an idiot. And he's on TV.
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  #12  
Old 09-18-2012, 07:36 PM
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Set her up to fail, let her fail, and then KEEP PRESSURE ON HER until her self control breaks down??

He was crouching over her that entire time after she let up the growling/snarling and lay down on the ground. No idea what made him think it was okay to grab her on the muzzle.

Don't blame the dog one bit.
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:41 PM
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And you know what will happen most likely??? The owners will experience another blow-out from this poor dog because he won't ever be made safe with these tactics....and decide he must die. It's like conspiracy to commit murder. CM is the one who sets the dog up. The owners are the ones that make it happen.

He does all this to create drama. How boring would it be to have someone gradually condition the dog to thinking it's a good thing to touch his food? He's out for the TV schmoozola and the money. Sickening!!!!!!!
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:13 PM
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FYI: The dog wasn't returned back to its owners, she stayed with CM. Which IMO, wasn't a bad decision. A dog like that shouldn't be in a home with a toddler (the owners had an 18 month old kid).
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RD View Post
Set her up to fail, let her fail, and then KEEP PRESSURE ON HER until her self control breaks down??

He was crouching over her that entire time after she let up the growling/snarling and lay down on the ground. No idea what made him think it was okay to grab her on the muzzle.

Don't blame the dog one bit.
I was hoping she was going to launch herself at him while he was crouching over her....... I would have.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:07 PM
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It was pretty stupid but I probably would put down a dog that explosive or... you know just feed in a crate.

Ill never understand the human desire to fondle dog chow
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:51 PM
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It was pretty stupid but I probably would put down a dog that explosive or... you know just feed in a crate.

Ill never understand the human desire to fondle dog chow
I have always "fondled" dog chow...so that an 18 month old won't get bitten if he touches the food. All my puppies have always been shown from day one that adults and children coming around, even touching their food were not a threat...would not steal their food....that in fact, they were something that brought security in the way of keeping and obtaining more and even better food. I'd have my little girl hand feed a new puppy and the kids in high chairs would drop food...like they do on the floor. The dog would learn that little kids bring food, they don't take it. When I would feed my dogs in the kitchen, there could well be a toddler crawling near them. I didn't have to worry. I watched, but there was never a feeling in my dogs that their food was not safe.

When I first would get a puppy, I'd sit on the floor and hand feed them some of their food from the bowl. Then set it down and make it a pleasant time while they ate, even tossing in a little piece of cheese or something else very yummy. They were conditioned to never be nervous when someone was close to or touching their food.
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  #18  
Old 09-19-2012, 12:30 AM
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Big difference between conditioning a dog from puppyhood to accept it, and taking a dog with a massive hang-up about the food bowl and trying to fondle its kibble.

Every now and then I interrupt my dog while she's eating and go in, touch the food and add something good before i release her. She will call off of anything because of it. If I just walked up to her and started throwing my hand around in her dish while she was eating kibble? I'd kind of expect a little grumbling or teeth showing. I'd do the same **** thing if I was chowing down and someone started poking and messing with my food. Seriously.
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  #19  
Old 09-19-2012, 05:11 AM
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AWFUL. I cannot fathom how, when viewing this video, any of CM's cult followers could not question their blind faith. Anyone with any understanding of dog behavior would not grab a dog's muzzle who looked like that dog. She was whale eyed!

I also love the fact that he chases the dog away from her food bowl, then she "submits". What have you accomplished with that? You've pressured her away from the resource. You have done nothing but chase a dog away, that's not solving any problems!!! Like always, he focuses on absolutely nothing except for the reaction... with zero regard for cause of behavior. It makes me lol to see him make stuff up as he goes along, rambling on with pseudo-scientific jargon that has no basis in actual animal behavior. Like, really? This man is rich off of this? He did do a super impressive ninja pose though. I think he should pursue his original career goal, acting. Oh wait he IS acting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kady05 View Post
FYI: The dog wasn't returned back to its owners, she stayed with CM. Which IMO, wasn't a bad decision. A dog like that shouldn't be in a home with a toddler (the owners had an 18 month old kid).
I feel so bad for that dog. She looks absolutely miserable & terrified. I'm sure she could have stayed in her home if the owners utilized proper management, and freaking dropped some treats in the dogs bowl while passing by, instead of chasing her away from the bowl like psychotic ninjas! I had a dog just like this in my last group... by the end of the classes, she wagged her tail and looked up expectantly when anyone would walk up to her bowl while she ate. It's not hard. It just requires swallowing of pride and being accountable/responsible.

I've noticed more & more cases where Cesar keeps the dogs... and it makes me wonder what really happens to all of those dogs. Do they stay there for life? And can you call a trainer who takes in so many dogs successful in any way? He RUINS dogs, to the point that only HE can handle them, and only by putting them in a highly controlled, supervised, suppressed state at all times.

This episode made me extra sad, because I've seen the horrible outcome first hand. My friends adopted a very sweet, street dog a year ago. He was super friendly and eager to please... a great little dog! His only issue (from living on the streets) was a little bit of food guarding. Instead of trading and desensitizing, they utilized Cesar's Way. They alpha rolled, choked out, and intimidated that poor dog and he bit them dozens and dozens of times. Now he lives in a crate 99% of the time - by choice, because he's constantly terrified - and has bitten every person he's met. If you hold out your open hand to offer him a treat, he'll snatch up the treat and attack your hand!!! He resource guards infinitely worse now than he used to.
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  #20  
Old 09-19-2012, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kady05 View Post
FYI: The dog wasn't returned back to its owners, she stayed with CM. Which IMO, wasn't a bad decision. A dog like that shouldn't be in a home with a toddler (the owners had an 18 month old kid).
Thatís debatable. Resource guarding is a very normal dog behavior, and its also a very fixable behavior in most cases. And while its being fixed its also very manageable. Especially if the guarding is limited to food.

IMO, for whatever thatís worth, I donít think Holly really wanted to bite Cesar. I think she tried incredibly hard NOT to bite Cesar. Air snaps are not ďmissedĒ bites, if she had wanted to tag him right before his ninja pose thing, she would have, but she chose to warn him with an air snap instead. And that was only after giving him TONS of signals telling him to pretty please back off youíre making me really nervous.

Granted, once he pushed her in to the bite, she will have a lowered bite threshold. But what I saw was a dog trying very hard to NOT bite which to me makes for much easier rehabilitation.

We have a former guarder who had every reason to mistrust humans. Despite his history and his shelter eval, he is by nature a very stable dog. Once he learned to trust us, and once he learned that his signals would be heeded, he has turned in to a solid, trustworthy dog. To the point that my kids do feed him, they can, if they need to, take things away from him. He can lay next to them on the sofa while they have a bowl of popcorn and no issues. Not with them or the other dogs approaching. Heís now a perfectly safe family dog.

So no. I donít agree that ďa dog like thatĒ can never be safe in a home with kids. I totally understand if someone does not want to risk it, but I do feel that most simple food guarding issues are very manageable and fixable and I certainly wouldnít tell someone to get rid of their dog just because they have kids and the dog is guardy around food.
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