CM gets bitten... again (vid included)

[rubygirl]

Originally Posted by Renee750il

Neither do I.

There are a lot of people I'd throw in front of a speeding car to save my dogs.

I'm sorry.

[sassafras]

Originally Posted by Greenmagick

It has to do with responsibility. It has to do with recognizing in THIS situation, the dog was pushed to bite. She most likely would be a fairly easy rehab.

Exactly. I don't care if anyone would personally choose to have this dog in their home, but I take issue with a position that states objectively that this dog is a worthless POS dog who has no place in any home and belongs in the ground. RG is not that difficult to deal with and manage, and it's not the dog's fault the problem has been handled badly.

[rubygirl]

Originally Posted by Beanie

No, I didn't like it, but YOU are the one who used the comparison; therefore I used the same kind of comparison back to you. In other words, I am speaking your language. You drew a parallel which means you think it is a valid parallel. I don't believe it's a valid parallel but because you do and I am speaking to you about your thought process I am continuing the parallel.

I suppose it's no longer fair if somebody turns the tables on you though.

I stated that there was no comparison in my initial post. I guess you didn't read the entire thing. Oh well.

[sassafras]

Originally Posted by rubygirl

Did the dog react appropriately, no (explanation: I have seen dogs go through much more stress then this and never react this way).

What does how a completely different dog reacts have to do with how this dog reacts? I know a lot of dogs who have no problem with thunderstorms, does that mean that no dog should ever be afraid of thunderstorms? Dogs are individuals.

[Taqroy]

Originally Posted by kady05

9pgs. of posts. I replied.. 8 times. Where have I gotten defensive and started a fight on this topic again? Hell, if I'm being defensive, I'd hate to hear what you'd classify some of the others who have been much more involved in this topic than I have!

Uh yeah it would appear I have to apologize on the defensive front because 1, you haven't been all that defensive in this thread and 2, you really have nothing on rubygirl. Sorry.

Originally Posted by kady05

Sorry if you're offended by my opinion. I personally feel that I would never own a dog that bit people. I mentioned "Pit Bull" frame of mind because if I had dogs that bit people, that'd be a lot bigger deal than if I owned say, a Lab that bit people. The world doesn't take very kindly to Pit Bulls that bite humans.. not sure if you knew that. And yes, I'm being a bit "smug" now.

Yeah I am offended by your opinion. You're not being smug you're being sarcastic. Yes I know what the "Pit bull frame of mind" is - I think it's doing a worse disservice to pit bulls, as a breed, to expect them to never ever bite. You know, in my opinion and all that jazz.

Originally Posted by kady05

Isn't that what forums are for? So people can voice different opinions on topics? Or is that not allowed here?

Did I say any different? I was trying to explain why people react so strongly to you. You're clearly entitled to your opinion, even if I find it offensive. I just think it's ridiculous for someone to kick down the door on a thread, voice an opinion that they know (based on prior experience) isn't going to to go over well, and then act surprised when it doesn't go well. (Which as we've gone over, you haven't done in this thread.)

Originally Posted by Renee750il

Kady's right -- a forum is about sharing different opinions and learning from each other. At least this one is. That's how we began and how we got where we are now.

I never said anything different - in fact I'm pretty sure I've never in any thread said different. Kady was the one who brought it up, as most people do when they're questioned on their opinion, or when they're in the minority.

[rubygirl]

Originally Posted by sassafras

What does how a completely different dog reacts have to do with how this dog reacts? I know a lot of dogs who have no problem with thunderstorms, does that mean that no dog should ever be afraid of thunderstorms? Dogs are individuals.

And some dogs should be pts....

[Doberluv]

Originally Posted by Greenmagick

This has nothing to do with dogs being seen as equals, I certainly dont feel that way.

It has to do with responsibility. It has to do with recognizing in THIS situation, the dog was pushed to bite. She most likely would be a fairly easy rehab.

I totally believe that. I've had so much worse to go through a rehab process. This dog would have been a cake walk. I have no doubt. The only other thing I didn't glean from this video is whether or not the dog has any other areas where she has shown defensiveness in a snarly, bitey fashion. It may look sometimes, as though it's only food guarding that is going on, but there can also, coincidentally, be other reasons going along parallel with it that should be investigated as well. Often other things can be over shadowed by this more obvious and justifiable thing...a symptom of unfair treatment. Has the dog had unfair treatment where food isn't concerned...in some other aspects of it's life? The whole dog, in other words, needs to be looked at. jmo.

[Renee750il]

That wasn't at you, Taq, it was just in general, addressing something that gets thrown out there occasionally

[Emily]

Sorry, I just can't seem stop thinking about this. Having worked lots-o-dogs lately, it becomes apparent how in a perfectly normal, average dog, small issues can be made into very large ones by poor, aggressive, or egotistical handling. These are normal dogs. No, maybe they're not super bombproof, but they're not volatile either. Their owners need not tiptoe around them to avoid an aggressive response, but merely exercise a few simple management strategies and exhibit a little bit of patient and compassionate handling. That's all. It's not rocket science.

I see no practical OR ethical reason for such dogs to die.

When I took this dog and his companion:


in off the street, in that condition... well, you can think I'm a bleeding heart furmommy whatever, but I exercised some management strategies to not put them in a position to guard their food. Call me crazy, but I kind of felt like that at that point in their lives, they didn't need me telling them that all their food belonged to me.

For the next MONTH, they were fed crated and undisturbed. When I went to removed their food bowls, I religiously tossed an extra handful of kibble in as I reached for the bowl. After they had gained some weight and expected food on the reg, I would toss hot dogs into their bowls. Swirl my hands around in the food and leave treats in my wake.

Call me crazy, but I don't think that's too much to ask. It's pretty simple and barely took any extra time out of my day. It DID take me using my big human brain. And call me crazy again, but I think that those dogs were in a very vulnerable place when I took them in, and that the potential to create RG behavior was very real. And yet, with a few simple actions, I negated it totally.

Both dogs live with kids now, neither guards food in any capacity from anyone. I'm not trying to pat myself on the back. My point is that what I did was simple, and dogs who very well could have been balancing on that razor's edge of "serious issue" and "perfectly normal" were saved with just a small amount of thought and careful handling. This is not rare in dogs, and I have seen it time and time again in my occupation.

Sometimes it just takes a tiny bit of time and effort. If you're going to join the "one bite, you die" club, the least you can do is put forth that much effort.

[rubygirl]

Originally Posted by Taqroy

Yeah I am offended by your opinion. You're not being smug you're being sarcastic. Yes I know what the "Pit bull frame of mind" is - I think it's doing a worse disservice to pit bulls, as a breed, to expect them to never ever bite. You know, in my opinion and all that jazz.

I don't believe Kady means that she "expects them to never ever bite" but more that if they DO they should be dealt with.
You ever been attacked by a pit bull?