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  #151  
Old 09-20-2012, 11:21 AM
rubygirl rubygirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
If you think about it, it's WORSE if you let kids act like that . . . while you supervise.
Thank you dr Phil. I appreciate the parenting advice from (I'm assuming) one who isn't a parent.
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  #152  
Old 09-20-2012, 11:21 AM
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Well if you had it then it wouldn't be mine and would be no skin off of my a**.
As long as death is swift and there is no suffering...
So, essentially, if it's not your dog, you don't really give a d@mn what happens to it? As long as it's quick?
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  #153  
Old 09-20-2012, 11:22 AM
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What education do you have?
I have 13 years of being a dog owner, 7 years of rescuing/fostering (around 220 dogs in total), and I have been asked to deal with dogs behaviours outside my home as well. I also groom, and do canine dental scaling.
Is that enough for you?
I don't tolerate s***. Maybe I would if I didn't have kids (my oldest is 7) but as for right now I'm very sensitive about the dogs I allow into my home.
The dog I have right now (aside from some puppy mouthing- she is 15 months) is bomb proof. My kids can climb on her, sit on her, grab her flews and take things out of her mouth. She will surrender raw meat to my kids (took no additional training for her to do it). She will allow everything/anything.
And I don't even trust HER completely. I always supervise. I still don't allow the kids around her when she's eating. She doesn't get chews or treats when the kids are around, their play gets too rough- I end that.
If she EVER bit me my children, my husband or close friends that she is accustomed to hard enough to draw blood-- she would be taken to the vet within the hour and euthanized.
I don't mean accidental bites, I don't mean she was playing and thought my hand was a tug; I mean an aggressive (yes even food aggressive) bite or attack (the dog in this video attacked he didn't bite).
I have owned dogs for 53 years and trained my own dogs since I was around 9 or 10. I don't have a PhD in behavior, but I took 2 years of animal behavior in high school and 2 in college. I spent an additional 8 or 9 years researching, studying for 10 - 12 + hours a day, rather obsessively, some seminars and help from mentors...the science of behavior and current behaviorists' methods and ideas etc, etc. It's a passion of mine and so I have really put a lot of time into it. I tend to do things that way when I get passionate about them. Ask my kids when I was practicing the piano for a wedding. I drove them nuts, practicing one complicated line over and over again for hours. I didn't want to blow it and I spent 12 hours at least a day getting it down pat...lots of new music. I pulled it off, but wrecked my wrists doing it...bad tendinitis. I have also, up until recently when I moved, trained professionally as a behavior specialist/consultant. It's how I made my living. I have worked heavily with dogs that have "aggression" issues...of various types along with other kinds of problems that owners call me for besides regular obedience training. Although I have taken some agility with my Doberman, that is something I would not be equipped to teach. I don't know enough about it.

At any rate, this is not a competition. There are so many people, even here on Chaz who have lots of ideas that never occurred to me, who have more experience with difficult dogs than I. There is ALWAYS something more to learn and experience, no matter how much someone already has done. And I certainly haven't done close to what a lot of people have. Those are generally the people I go to for information and advice. The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.
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  #154  
Old 09-20-2012, 11:23 AM
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You didnt like my comparison between a dog and a human so don't do the same thing.
No, I didn't like it, but YOU are the one who used the comparison; therefore I used the same kind of comparison back to you. In other words, I am speaking your language. You drew a parallel which means you think it is a valid parallel. I don't believe it's a valid parallel but because you do and I am speaking to you about your thought process I am continuing the parallel.

I suppose it's no longer fair if somebody turns the tables on you though.
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  #155  
Old 09-20-2012, 11:23 AM
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She wasn't pushed that bloody hard.
Yes, she was. What a dog perceives as aggression and being pushed hard is different than what a human perceives as aggression and being pushed hard. Since you're so adamant that dogs aren't people, I would think you'd be aware of that.
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  #156  
Old 09-20-2012, 11:24 AM
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My god, what a sad, sad take on things. My dog's food is her's, she needs it to live and as her owner I'm obligated to provide her with it. She does let me take it (and anything else she has) because she trusts me, not because I own it. My ego and my imaginary "rights" have nothing to do with things.

The question of whether to PTS a dog shouldn't be one of "worth." It should be a choice based on consideration of all the complicated factors in the dog's life and the handler's life that either do or do not make the dog manageable and retrainable. Again, not because we're making excuses, but because it matters.

Deeming the dog "worthless" is so vindictive and childish.

Have you ever worked with dogs in a professional capacity, rubygirl?

ETA: I'm willing to bet that there are many dogs with less that rock solid temperaments that are worth their weight in gold to their owners. Lucky for them.

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  #157  
Old 09-20-2012, 11:26 AM
rubygirl rubygirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
So, essentially, if it's not your dog, you don't really give a d@mn what happens to it? As long as it's quick?
Yes. As long as death is immediate. I give a **** what is happening to it: I don't want it to be abused, neglected, starved etc.
I love dog but I don't prioritize her over real issues taking place in this world.
I love my dog and while she is in my care she gets the best of everything- diet, vet care, toys, we are going to be getting her insured (Canadian vet care is much higher then the states as far as I've seen/heard of).
If I didn't love my dog I wouldn't join a forum for dogs
I just don't believe the "all creatures big and small are equals" mantra.
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  #158  
Old 09-20-2012, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rubygirl View Post
Yes. As long as death is immediate. I give a **** what is happening to it: I don't want it to be abused, neglected, starved etc.
I love dog but I don't prioritize her over real issues taking place in this world.
I love my dog and while she is in my care she gets the best of everything- diet, vet care, toys, we are going to be getting her insured (Canadian vet care is much higher then the states as far as I've seen/heard of).
If I didn't love my dog I wouldn't join a forum for dogs
I just don't believe the "all creatures big and small are equals" mantra.
Neither do I.

There are a lot of people I'd throw in front of a speeding car to save my dogs.
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In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
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  #159  
Old 09-20-2012, 11:30 AM
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This has nothing to do with dogs being seen as equals, I certainly dont feel that way.

It has to do with responsibility. It has to do with recognizing in THIS situation, the dog was pushed to bite. She most likely would be a fairly easy rehab.
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  #160  
Old 09-20-2012, 11:32 AM
rubygirl rubygirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
I have owned dogs for 53 years and trained my own dogs since I was around 9 or 10. I don't have a PhD in behavior, but I took 2 years of animal behavior in high school and 2 in college. I spent an additional 8 or 9 years researching, studying for 10 - 12 + hours a day, rather obsessively, some seminars and help from mentors...the science of behavior and current behaviorists' methods and ideas etc, etc. It's a passion of mine and so I have really put a lot of time into it. I tend to do things that way when I get passionate about them. Ask my kids when I was practicing the piano for a wedding. I drove them nuts, practicing one complicated line over and over again for hours. I didn't want to blow it and I spent 12 hours at least a day getting it down pat...lots of new music. I pulled it off, but wrecked my wrists doing it...bad tendinitis. I have also, up until recently when I moved, trained professionally as a behavior specialist/consultant. It's how I made my living. I have worked heavily with dogs that have "aggression" issues...of various types along with other kinds of problems that owners call me for besides regular obedience training. Although I have taken some agility with my Doberman, that is something I would not be equipped to teach. I don't know enough about it.

At any rate, this is not a competition. There are so many people, even here on Chaz who have lots of ideas that never occurred to me, who have more experience with difficult dogs than I. There is ALWAYS something more to learn and experience, no matter how much someone already has done. And I certainly haven't done close to what a lot of people have. Those are generally the people I go to for information and advice. The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.
It is a competition apparently... I can almost guarantee you asked me what education I had so that you could list off all of your credentials which made you look more then a little pompous. You win!
I can see that the dog was distressed, yes. I can see that Cesar exacerbated the animals distress, yes. Did the dog react appropriately, no (explanation: I have seen dogs go through much more stress then this and never react this way).
Those are my opinions. I have validated your claim. I have stated how I feel/what I think. I now have nothing more to add. I digress.
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