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  #11  
Old 09-16-2012, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BostonBanker View Post
Oh, trust me I know that! Heck, I get "she's always so perfect" comments about Meg all the time, and those of us who have known her for a long time just glance at each other and smirk. But there are still moments where I think "if I'd just gotten the purebred puppy from the good breeder I would have done it all right and never have issues and...". Rational thought sometimes goes out the window when you are upset. Like I said, the purebred ACD from a good breeder could have all the same problems and more - or a whole slew of different ones.

Like I said, I just feel that it is unfair for both the dog and the owner for him to have to spend his life being compared to this non-existent puppy. I'm not generally a fan of rehoming dogs, but there are times when it is the best answer for all involved. If you are going to be looking at pictures of those ACD puppies you could have had, and then turning to Ryder and saying "Why did I get you instead?"...don't. Let him find someone who is going to look at him and say "I'm so glad I made this choice".

And as I said, if this is just the frustrated venting, let it out, and then move on to helping Ryder be the dog he's capable of being.
Absolutely true. (the bolded part especially) If you don't think you can separate him out and put him in his own little spot in your heart....or if you are compelled to compare him to the "theoretical" dog, it wouldn't be fair to hang onto him. He needs and deserves to be appreciated and loved for the "person" he is...just the way he is. It's not a blight on you if you can't feel that way. It's just the way it is if you do. And steps should be taken to make his life the best it can be. And yours too.
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  #12  
Old 09-16-2012, 10:16 AM
Gempress Gempress is offline
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The only problem is those 'perfect dogs' probably aren't so perfect and they probably didn't start out that way.
I agree with this to some extent, but not entirely. Getting a young puppy from parents with known temperaments, from a breeder who is knowledgeable at evaluating their pup's personalities and making sure they go to the perfect home, is very different from getting an adult dog from rescue.

Socializing a young pup is often a matter of months. With a grown dog, it can be a matter of years, if ever. With a puppy, you're helping shape its growing and developing personality. With an adult dog, you're trying to undo set habits and established behaviors. It's a lot more difficult.

That being said, I'm certainly not against rescue. Many great dogs come from rescue. My sweet Zeus was rescued as an adult, and I love him to death. But dealing with issues of an older dog is without a doubt VERY different from a new puppy.

I agree with what everyone else has said about returning him to the rescue. Dogs live for 10-15 years on average, and it's not fair for you to be "stuck" with a dog you're unhappy with for at least a decade. In the end, we own our dogs because they make us happy. If your dog isn't making you happy, than I would seriously consider returning him to rescue. He may not be right for you, but he may be the dream dog for somebody else.
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  #13  
Old 09-16-2012, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BostonBanker View Post
Oh, trust me I know that! Heck, I get "she's always so perfect" comments about Meg all the time, and those of us who have known her for a long time just glance at each other and smirk. But there are still moments where I think "if I'd just gotten the purebred puppy from the good breeder I would have done it all right and never have issues and...". Rational thought sometimes goes out the window when you are upset. Like I said, the purebred ACD from a good breeder could have all the same problems and more - or a whole slew of different ones.
Oh I know you do. I was just saying in general people can see the end result and miss the steps to get there and only see the end result.

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Originally Posted by Gempress View Post
I agree with this to some extent, but not entirely. Getting a young puppy from parents with known temperaments, from a breeder who is knowledgeable at evaluating their pup's personalities and making sure they go to the perfect home, is very different from getting an adult dog from rescue.

Socializing a young pup is often a matter of months. With a grown dog, it can be a matter of years, if ever. With a puppy, you're helping shape its growing and developing personality. With an adult dog, you're trying to undo set habits and established behaviors. It's a lot more difficult.
I do agree that getting a pup vs adult is different. I've never gotten an adult rescue but I have had 3 dogs we've gotten as adults. Each one had something about their personality that I know I could have handled differently and in turn made them ever so slightly into more 'my kind of dog'. But I think the genetics for their temperament would always be there. If I had gotten Trey as a pup MAYBE he wouldn't have been quite so fearful. But that's a big maybe. His owner knew what she was doing and he still ended up that way. It leads me to believe his temperament had more to do with the way he was wired than the way he was raised.

I know enough people that have gotten breeder pups and had some serious trouble with their dogs for me to say it's a breeder dog vs rescue thing. I have one friend who got her dream border collie puppy and has been dealing with some major temperament issues (OCD in the form of self mutilation, suspected ETS, and more). This is someone with tons of experience with performance dogs and herding breeds. I really don't think she could have done much differently in raising this dog that would fix these issues.

In the end I think it is much less WHERE you get the dog versus finding a dog with a temperament that matches you. And then on top of that having some luck.

Sorry this is a little off topic, I guess.
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  #14  
Old 09-16-2012, 10:30 AM
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Only you will know if the dog is not for you. But let me tell you of two dogs.

Kat was carefully bred. Heck she was the daughter of the best dog on the planet (I admit bias lol) As a pup she was hell on 4 paws. If you (any generic human) was holding her and she wanted down she would try to full on attack your face. Luckily she was small and that never got her anywhere. She was drivey and a big big pain. She matured into a wonderful dog. I was lucky to have her for the 2 years I did, and as seen by my recent thread I still hurt from her loss. But if you were to have met her at 6 months of age... So even the perfect puppy can start out as a chaos causing attention span of a nat whirling dervish type..

Then take Seren. I got her almost a year ago. She had been a kennel dog, very well bred and friendly. She screamed in fear at the whippets. She had NO concept of house training. She had never had to hold it in the kennel so messed in her crate for the first week. It took MONTHS to house train her. (She still isn't 100%) There was so much she didn't know. She is now a well adjusted member of the household. I can take her out in public, train her etc. But it took quite a while.

So if there is a little voice going 'maybe' I say give it some more time. If you look at the dog and go "not my dog" then I agree finding the dog another home is in both your best interests.
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  #15  
Old 09-16-2012, 10:40 AM
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Storee was supposed to be my big performance dog, bred for that, awesome breeder, best temperament...

And it's taken five years to 'get there' where she's not as independant and wants to work. There's been times where I've thought 'ugh' but still pushed working her, sometimes taking a break from training, and now she's coming together nicely. Would be nicer if she was three years younger, but she's taught me a lot.

But, you have to do what works for you too, if you can't give him a chance or he's just not the right dog, then rehoming would be better for both.
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  #16  
Old 09-16-2012, 10:49 AM
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I think it was Laurelin who observed -- after getting Mia -- that often we get the dogs we NEED instead of the ones we want.

I can only imagine the anguish you're feeling, because you do love dogs, and it seems, from your posts, that you want to love Ryder -- and really already do on a raw, emotional level. Pre-existing expectations can screw up relationships, but they can be hard to let go of.
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  #17  
Old 09-16-2012, 11:45 AM
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It's normal to have some of those feelings. I think if you really look inside your heart you will feel whether there is something there that can blossom into the relationship you want with him or not. If not, as others have said it's not really fair to either one of you to try to force things.

As far as true confessions. Maisy is Roxy's successor. No matter how much I told myself at the time this wasn't true, in retrospect I was trying to find Roxy Part II. And for a long time I did not bond with Maisy because of it, although I wouldn't really admit that to myself for a long time. I wondered and worried if she was not a good fit, I felt bad about it, agonized over whether to talk to the rescue about them taking her back. But even if she wasn't what I expected, there was ALWAYS something there that made me feel like she belonged with me and ultimately I decided to stick it out.

It took me over a year to truly bond with Maisy as Maisy. And there were a variety of challenges along the way but she is truly my dog now and I don't regret anything. Is she the dog I thought I was getting, or the dog that was in my head when she came home? No. But she is still my girl.

So my point is, what you are feeling now does not make the future hopeless and sometimes it takes time for that relationship to blossom. Often I do think our pre-expectations are the cause. BUT there really is no shame in having those feelings in the first place OR in ultimately deciding that little spark between you really, truly isn't there and he's not the dog for you.
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Old 09-16-2012, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
I think it was Laurelin who observed -- after getting Mia -- that often we get the dogs we NEED instead of the ones we want.
This exactly.

My second dog Scout was not what I was looking for. In fact I turned down not one, but two dogs that would have been exactly what I was looking for. I turned them down because though I wanted a well bred GSD with which to do sport, I felt it was not the right time monetarily to make that investment. And I wasn't even looking at pups, I was looking at 2yr old breeder rehomes.

Long story short, I ended up with Scout because my best friend's mother didn't listen to my warnings about how much work Lily requires on a daily basis. I turned Scout down multiple times before finally taking her, but she decided I was her person from the second we met.

Scout will never be normal, but I would not trade her for the world. There are times when I just want to scream, but at the same time she's as much a part of me as like my arm. She's fear reactive toward dogs and also co-dependant to my other dog to the point where I can't leave her alone. Ever. Know how frustrating it is not to get one on one time with Lily?

I had to approach training her completely differently, but you know what its made me an enormously better trainer than I ever would have become otherwise. And I will never be done learning. I worked on finding a way to get her to platz for over two years before I figured something out that works... and now she's progressed to offerring it.

I'll be honest, adopting Lily was a cakewalk. Lily has the good genetics to overcome and surpass her early life experiences. She will never overcome her compulsive eating disorder from being dumped by her first owner, but really that is super small potatos in the big picture and I can't complain because thats the only real baggage she's got.

Though she's nearly the exact same mix, taking Scout in has been totally different. I learned just how important things like genetics (she was born into rescue after a hoarding bust) and early socialization/training games are. I do think she'd be a lot different if she'd been with me from day one, but even with that she would still never be normal. She is what she is and I love her anyway.

I don't want another rescue, but by the same token I know I'd eat my words if I said I was swearing off rescues forever. I will say my working mix rescues have done a very good job of preparing me for the eventuality of getting a well bred dog or puppy of my preferred breeds someday in the future, especially in regards to building a good foundation.
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  #19  
Old 09-16-2012, 08:40 PM
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This was almost fully a vent. Have I thrown around the idea of returning him to the rescue? Yes. Do I know deep down that is what I want? No. It's not. He is MY dog. Today, we took a nice long hike and I really evaluated how he fit into our family, and to be honest, he is 95% everything I wanted in my ACD.

Like I said, he needs socialization. It can be done. Will it take a while? Yes, yes it will. But I'm 20, I've got plenty of time to get him socialized, and I also have plenty of time in the future to eventually get an ACD pup. With him being an adult, I do think it is a good stepping stone going from Bullies to herding dogs and I think it will help me a lot when I do get my ACD pup. His off switch in the house will come with time.

I just needed to get my words written down and get it out. I truly do try to work with the dog I have, not the one I want. I was just having a bad day and was frustrated.

How could I not love this face?
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  #20  
Old 09-16-2012, 08:55 PM
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Everyone understands needing to vent sometimes. He has such a sweet face.
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