Leash time is NOT play time!

[smeagle]

Originally Posted by Aleron

I don't think anyone suggested not teaching him to walk...just that she could also use his love of this game he made up on walks for training and relationship building. I even suggested how she could do that and work on lww.

I know, but what I meant was that I wouldn't confuse the two. When I train loose leash walking I like the dog to learn it's a time to be calm and chilled out, and I personally wouldn't reward a dog for tugging and chewing on the leash when we're walking. Not saying one way is right or wrong, just different perspectives.

[SpringerLover]

I think that especially when we're still trying to figure a dog out, it's really important to engage in their games. Clearly they like it, so include yourself and you have a much more valuable reinforcer to use!

[sassafras]

Originally Posted by smeagle

I know, but what I meant was that I wouldn't confuse the two. When I train loose leash walking I like the dog to learn it's a time to be calm and chilled out, and I personally wouldn't reward a dog for tugging and chewing on the leash when we're walking. Not saying one way is right or wrong, just different perspectives.

I was reading the advice as... use the tugging as such AS the reward, not to reward it? But now I'm confused, was I totally misunderstanding it?

[SpringerLover]

Originally Posted by sassafras

I was reading the advice as... use the tugging as such AS the reward, not to reward it? But now I'm confused, was I totally misunderstanding it?

You understood it as I meant it.

[smeagle]

Originally Posted by SpringerLover

I think that especially when we're still trying to figure a dog out, it's really important to engage in their games. Clearly they like it, so include yourself and you have a much more valuable reinforcer to use!

I'm not saying don't engage with them, any time we are interacting with our dogs we are training them and building our relationship, teaching them to walk nicely on the leash, to have good manners and be calm when it's appropriate is still building a good relationship I like to start as I mean to go on because I think teaching the rules and what I expect behaviour wise from the get go is fairer on the dog.

Maybe it's just the type of dogs I handle but if I let the young Mal I handle learn that she can initiate a game of tug whenever she wanted I'd get beaten up every time we walked down the street! There is a time for playing drive games (when I say so) and outside of those times I want to be walking a dog that is nicely mannered, calm and well behaved. But that's just how I train it.

[smeagle]

Originally Posted by sassafras

I was reading the advice as... use the tugging as such AS the reward, not to reward it? But now I'm confused, was I totally misunderstanding it?

Either way I wouldn't confuse walking (when I want a calm and well mannered dog) with drive work (when I want a dog highly aroused). I don't want my dog anticipating or expecting a prey drive reward on a walk, otherwise she wouldn't be calm and chilled out, she'd be on edge waiting to bite something. I also wouldn't want my dog to think she can tug on my nice leather leashes! LOL

[sassafras]

Originally Posted by smeagle

Either way I wouldn't confuse walking (when I want a calm and well mannered dog) with drive work (when I want a dog highly aroused). I don't want my dog anticipating or expecting a prey drive reward on a walk, otherwise she wouldn't be calm and chilled out, she'd be on edge waiting to bite something. I also wouldn't want my dog to think she can tug on my nice leather leashes! LOL

I dig it. I just like to have as many rewards/motivators in my back pocket as possible. Especially since we started scootering, since most rewards are pretty impractical if not impossible in the middle of a run.

FWIW, I started randomly reward a string of multiple really solid "on by"s when scootering by releasing them back to check out the most recent thing they just successfully went by (usually a squirrel up a tree). I don't think it confused them, on the contrary holy cow did I notice a huge improvement in their response to that command after I started doing it. YMMV, obviously. And obviously they're not chewing on my stuff for that.

[PWCorgi]

Originally Posted by sassafras

FWIW, I started randomly reward a string of multiple really solid "on by"s when scootering by releasing them back to check out the most recent thing they just successfully went by (usually a squirrel up a tree). I don't think it confused them, on the contrary holy cow did I notice a huge improvement in their response to that command after I started doing it. YMMV, obviously. And obviously they're not chewing on my stuff for that.

Yaaaaaaaay Premack!!

(At least I'm pretty sure that's Premack...right? )

[sassafras]

Originally Posted by PWCorgi

Yaaaaaaaay Premack!!

(At least I'm pretty sure that's Premack...right? )

Honestly I have no effing idea. For whatever reason, almost all training terminology falls out of my head immediately after I grasp its meaning.

[smeagle]

Originally Posted by sassafras

I dig it. I just like to have as many rewards/motivators in my back pocket as possible. Especially since we started scootering, since most rewards are pretty impractical if not impossible in the middle of a run.

FWIW, I started randomly reward a string of multiple really solid "on by"s when scootering by releasing them back to check out the most recent thing they just successfully went by (usually a squirrel up a tree). I don't think it confused them, on the contrary holy cow did I notice a huge improvement in their response to that command after I started doing it. YMMV, obviously. And obviously they're not chewing on my stuff for that.

Oh, totally agree with you about having rewards on hand that you dog finds super valuable. I don't mean I wouldn't develop value for lots of different rewards in different contexts, I just see teaching loose leash walking as going hand in hand with teaching the dog to be calm and chilled. Some people may not be interested in approaching it that way and that's cool too. One thing I find is that getting super obedience and focus under distraction easily when we're out on a walk/busy places, and teaching the dog to be calm and well mannered outside of when they are training and responding to commands are two different things. How are they behaving when I'm not actively training them? Manners outside of training is something I've come to really value.