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  #41  
Old 01-12-2006, 03:36 PM
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the general idea is correct, but in practice it works a little differently.

it really depends on what traits you are looking for, and often backcrossing (breeding one of the F1 hybrids to one of the parents) or outcrossing (breeding to a different breed/cross to get or strenghten a particular trait) are also involved, as are inbreeding and linebreeding.

just breeding a particular bloodline for 6 or 7 generations still doesn't mean that after that you have a true-breeding new breed. even in the "real" labradoodles (not just F1 crosses) that have been bred for generations in australia, some traits still aren't established reliably, which is why so far they have not reached their goal of creating a hypoallergenic service dog.
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  #42  
Old 01-12-2006, 03:37 PM
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Let me try to break this down a bit in a form of a tree-

You have 6 Labradors and breed them to 6 poodles to get L/P mixes

LP(A)_LP(B)_LP(C)_LP(D)_LP(E)_LP(F)_LP(G)_LP(H)_LP (I)_LP(J)_LP(K)_LP(L)_
_LP(AB)______LP(CD)______LP(EF)______LP(GH)_____LP (IJ)_____LP(KL)___
______LP(ABCD)_______________LP(EFGH)_____________ __LP(IJKL)______
_______________LP(ABCDEFGH)________________LP(IJKL )_______________
___________________________LP(ABCDEFGHIJKL)_______ _______________

so pup out of litter ABCDEFGHIJKL would be the first generation purebred "Labradoodle" after all of the breeding..... but has anyone though to actually breed two litters of Lab/poodle mixes long enough to get a full generation full-blood (Which takes 12 original dogs to accomplish)

But many many many many dumbasses out there cant understand why a lab/poodle mix is NOT a breed. it is a mixed breed. You would have to breed for at least 5 continous generations to get the actual "Labradoodle" breed.

Sorry but until they can give a breed standard for a labradoodle and breed consistently for 5 generations will they ever be considered even a remote breed.

-Dixie
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  #43  
Old 01-12-2006, 03:53 PM
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i understand what you were trying to say.

generally tho, when developing a new breed, the breeder will not start out with as wide of a base (12 dogs in 6 pairs for example, as you said), but breed more closely to a single blood line, making adjustments as necessary along the generations. it's not just about creating a "genetically purebred" dog (and you can still get throwbacks even after 6 generations or more) but also about firmly establishing desired traits.

in regards to labradoodles, you might find this article interesting:
http://www.labradoodle.org/Site/History.aspx
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  #44  
Old 01-12-2006, 04:01 PM
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Mordy and Dixie,

Everything you say makes complete sense to me. I think this finally answers most my questions about the "Labradoodle." I have heard that the Australian kennel club had formally recognized the breed. I had assumed that this would have required a breeding program like what you two describe above. If that assumption were true, it would be hard to distinguishing individuals who did everything the proper way with respect to the breeding of labradoodels from any of the breeders that had created any of the miriad of man-made AKC registered breeds. If I understand you correctly, the breeders pushing the "labradoodle" did not follow/are not trying to follow this type of regimine to create a new breed.
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  #45  
Old 01-12-2006, 04:15 PM
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PFC1 you are correct - most "breeders" ( i use the term loosely here) of labradoodles just have some labs and poodles and breed them to create F1 crossbreeds, which they are selling for insane amounts of money to ignorant, gullible people.

at least there are folks seriously putting an effort into establishing true breeding labradoodles, but you can't say the same thing for all those other silly designer "breeds" folks are breeding to make a quick buck, such as peke-a-poos, maltipoos, yorkiepoos, puggles and so on.
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  #46  
Old 01-12-2006, 06:54 PM
Beauceron Beauceron is offline
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I understand all of this, however isn't the "labradoodle" a failed attempt? After THIRTY years they couldn't produce a consistant dog, what's going to change that now?
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  #47  
Old 01-12-2006, 08:22 PM
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i wouldn't call it a failed attempt if there are still people interested in pursuing the goal of eventually establishing the labradoodle as a recognized breed.

yes, the project of creating an "allergy friendly" service dog may have failed, and all the F1 breeders may have damaged its reputation and greatly hampered the effort, but that doesn't mean it can't eventually become a breed.

after all there are other breeds where dogs of different sizes and coat qualities exist and 30 years isn't exactly a long time if we look at things in terms of breeding.
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  #48  
Old 01-12-2006, 09:33 PM
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I agree with Morty's posts....some day there will be a recognized breed, but not until someone has produced a " standard" ... so far all I see is a mish-mash of both breeds. I would love to see a post here from someone who has bought a mixed breed where ALL the pups looked alike . Until then.. I regard these breeds as products of BYBS and their prices should reflect that.
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  #49  
Old 01-13-2006, 01:52 PM
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+1 for Grammy-

Your right people who breed these first generation Lab/poodle mixes and then selling them off as a "breed" is pure BS.

I will echo what has been said, until they can breed consistently with every litter looking similar (in regards to a "standard") then maybe after 30 or so years of breeding a consistent standard will the AKC recognize them (which means it would likely take an additional 60 years of breeding them from here on) So altogether it would take roughly 90 years to get an actual breed and getting a set standard, after they succeed in this then and only then will the AKC even remotely take them seriously.

As of right now I am thankful that the AKC is refusing to recognize them as a legit breed because until something conisistent comes out they will just be "mutts" - you can find plenty of them for thousands less at your local shelter.

-Dixie
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  #50  
Old 01-13-2006, 02:20 PM
Mikey27X834 Mikey27X834 is offline
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The white Mini Schnauzer isn't recognised by the AKC as far as I know, yet it is part of the breed, and is no mutt.
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