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  #4231  
Old 03-25-2013, 05:36 PM
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sillysally sillysally is offline
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Originally Posted by Dogdragoness View Post
Sorry but I have to say I agree, I don't want a 1000 lb animal all up in my business.

Before you bring up wild/zoo animals let me say they use those because they have no other choice! A wild animal is still wild! A horse/dog/cat/cow whatever is a DOMESTICATED animal an animal you CAN work closely with so sometimes clicker training is MORE risky with a large animal that you have to be in close contact with.

I prefer to use methods like Clinton Anderson uses , they aren't cruel but they Re based on how horses naturally communicate with one another.
I'm going to see a Clinton Anderson clinic this summer. I'm generally a fan of natural horsemanship methods. I wouldn't rule out clicker training a horse, I've just never had a need to.
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  #4232  
Old 03-25-2013, 06:14 PM
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meepitsmeagan meepitsmeagan is offline
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
I'm going to see a Clinton Anderson clinic this summer. I'm generally a fan of natural horsemanship methods. I wouldn't rule out clicker training a horse, I've just never had a need to.
I've been to two Clinton clinics to audit, and had almost two years of work with a very good trainer who used his methods. They were great for turning my unruly three year old around. Haha. I really like him, though I use mainly his ground work and colt-starting. After that, I pretty much go off on my own.

My vent. I have to pee, do dishes, switch out laundry, and rotate the girls. However, I don't want to get off the couch.
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  #4233  
Old 03-25-2013, 06:25 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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Before you bring up wild/zoo animals let me say they use those because they have no other choice!
That is bullshit. Most zoos actually use minimal clicker training, not because they don't want to, but because they don't have the staff for it. Most zoos are grossly understaffed due to low budgets. Most dangerous animals are never handled without a barrier between the keeper and the animal. They learn to shift so you can clean exhibits/stalls, but it's a waiting game until they figure it out. The reason zoos use a clicker is because it's enriching and it WORKS. It is NOT because they have no choice.
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  #4234  
Old 03-25-2013, 06:53 PM
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We've had this conversation before and you don't understand how clicker training works. Guessing neither do these people and that's why they're reacting the same way you are.
People almost always react poorly to what they don't understand.
<3 Beanie.
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  #4235  
Old 03-25-2013, 07:01 PM
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  #4236  
Old 03-25-2013, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Julee View Post
<3 Beanie.
Oh I know it works, I just don't feel comfortable using it with horses.

Maybe the zoos in your area don't but here we have some really good zoos that use enriching tools as well as clicker training!

Clicker training is an OPTION for horses ... IMO not the best option!

Pro clicker training people IMO (as a neutral party on the whole deal, I don't subscribe to any one method) are the ones who push it as "the one, only & BEST way" to train any animals when for some ppl & animals, it is not.
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  #4237  
Old 03-25-2013, 07:10 PM
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CharlieDog CharlieDog is offline
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People can't seriously be THAT stupid, can they??!?

Ugh. Frustrated.
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  #4238  
Old 03-25-2013, 07:13 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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Maybe the zoos in your area don't but here we have some really good zoos that use enriching tools as well as clicker training!
So, you know for a fact that they use a LOT of clicker training? Because the average person thinks my zoo uses a TON of clicker training, when in reality we just tell the public a LOT about the little training we're able to do.

Zoos are very different from the inside. Thanks for insinuating I work at a shitty zoo, but that couldn't be further from the truth. FWIW our elephants aren't clicker trained, but they are still highly trained. We also enrich most animals at least once a day, and many of them several times a day. Even our cockroaches get enrichment daily.
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  #4239  
Old 03-25-2013, 07:15 PM
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I presume it's a fantastic method for training many tasks, likely not every aspect of animal husbandry for any species but many. Why would you have to use the same method across the board? I clicker train but some things benefit from aversion and some from luring.

The worst seems to be the closed mind.
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  #4240  
Old 03-25-2013, 07:23 PM
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meepitsmeagan meepitsmeagan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogdragoness View Post
Clicker training is an OPTION for horses ... IMO not the best option!

Pro clicker training people IMO (as a neutral party on the whole deal, I don't subscribe to any one method) are the ones who push it as "the one, only & BEST way" to train any animals when for some ppl & animals, it is not.
I just wanted to say that I disagree with ^this. I am pro clicker training, for both horses AND dogs. However, it is not the only tool I use for either. When you talk about not being close minded to new options, that means you have to be open to anything (within reason). Have you tried clicker training with horses? Would it work for every situation? No, it wouldn't. However, it could work very well for teaching to accept the halter, teaching to lead, teaching to square up, teaching to accept a bridle, a saddle, probably a lot of desensitization. There are so many options for teaching everything! As long as you are creating a positive environment, there is no reason that more than one thing cannot work. One size does not fit all with ANY animal.

And on the subject of working breeder and not health testing. I agree with crazed. Just because a dog comes from working parents does NOT mean the dog shouldn't be health tested for things that COMMONLY GO WRONG IN THE BREED. For example, ACD's. Since they are "my" breed, and I've done hours and hours of research on them, I will hit them. Progressive Retinal Atrophy, hips, knees, and hearing are ALL things that should be health tested. Just because a dog can work it's a$$ off with cattle doesn't mean that it is healthy in all these areas. He could have super poor hips, but because the breed is tough as nails, never really show it until they fail miserably. He could be a carrier for PRA, and be bred to a carrier or PRA, but because they didn't health test for PRA, NOBODY KNEW and now you are going to end up with a litter stock freakin' full of carriers and PRA affected dogs. And guess what? YOU CAN'T WORK CATTLE EFFECTIVELY WITH A BLIND DOG. Also, just because a dog can work cattle fantastically doesn't mean they have a stable temperament. Good breeders breed to better the breed in all aspects, and choose dogs who bring something to the table that the mate doesn't excel in, or has a compliment to a conformation weakness.

I'm not saying that every single breeder who breeds un-tested dogs are terrible and should end up in hell and can't produce a good dog. However, they are still BYB, and if you are dog knowledgeable, it is still pretty darn unacceptable in most cases to buy from them. Also, it is not impossible (in the breed I am specifically talking about especially) to find a breeder who has stellar working dogs who are health tested.

Sorry this became a book.
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