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  #13211  
Old 06-01-2014, 10:34 PM
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DJEtzel DJEtzel is offline
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Originally Posted by Fran101 View Post

and imagine living in a world where kids who couldn't afford to go to school just couldn't go. Where there was nowhere for kids to learn how to read or write, I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW SELFISH SOMEONE HAS TO BE TO NOT WANT TO SUPPORT THIS. It's not about being a parent it's about being a HUMAN
I couldn't agree more.
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  #13212  
Old 06-01-2014, 10:34 PM
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sassafras sassafras is offline
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Oh, PS - if all social support programs were suddenly completely defunded, nobody's taxes would be going down. The government would find other ways to spend that money, mmmkay?
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  #13213  
Old 06-01-2014, 10:39 PM
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Upendi&Mina Upendi&Mina is offline
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Oh, PS - if all social support programs were suddenly completely defunded, nobody's taxes would be going down. The government would find other ways to spend that money, mmmkay?
I find it amusing that people get all up in arms, when the total amount of welfare funding in 2012 was a whopping 0.47% of the federal budget, because obviously welfare is the reason taxes are so high.
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  #13214  
Old 06-01-2014, 11:06 PM
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Dogdragoness Dogdragoness is offline
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Originally Posted by Upendi&Mina View Post
I'll leave this here.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...y-myths-busted

And this
http://www.worldvisionusprograms.org...erty_myths.php

Especially this bit:

Myth: People who are poor are lazy.

Fact: More than 10.5 million people in poverty formed the “working poor” in the U.S. in 2010, meaning they were in the labor force for at least 27 weeks. (U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, 2012)


7. We're winning the war on poverty. The number of households with children living on less than $2 a day per person has grown 160 percent since 1996, to 1.65 million families in 2011.

Please you try living on under two bucks a day.
You know my yearly gross is under 40 grand, right, I am not going to say the exact number because that's no one's business but yeah, it's not like I am rolling in dough over here. And yes I do think it's irresponsible to have more kids when you can't afford the ones you have, it's IMO cruel.

And yes, my state's aid is very abused. One of the crappiest in the nation. It would be fine if that would revamp it so people who really need the help can get it and those who use it as a free ride get denied. Because right now it's people who really need it get denied and those who just want to hitchhike on the backs of taxpayers are approved.
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  #13215  
Old 06-01-2014, 11:11 PM
crazedACD crazedACD is offline
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Your state aid may be great but mine is horribly abused, people have all these kids and are eligible for state aid, then they keep having more kids that I have to pay for, common sense would tell me if I can't afford the ones I have than maybe I should be careful not to have more :/.
I would rather have kids fed than have subsidies cut off, whether it is being abused or not, or whether they should have had the kid or not.

I don't see a way for government to regulate people having kids. I do think responsible family planning should become a topic for families with kids/teens. It IS crappy when people who already have two or three kids lose their job, or they are struggling with funds for their current kids, and they go ahead and have another. YES, there are accidents. And someone who is struggling financially won't have the copay (or insurance at all) for some of the more "fancy" birth control. But trying or not preventing isn't cool.

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Originally Posted by Fran101 View Post
People lose their jobs, things happen... Some people set out with a plan and number of children they can handle and things happens in the way. And even if the parents are irresponsible, should the children go hungry because of it?
Accurate!
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  #13216  
Old 06-01-2014, 11:13 PM
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Beanie Beanie is offline
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Meanwhile the hockey season just ended for me... whomp.
And football is still almost three months away. Whomp. whomp.
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  #13217  
Old 06-01-2014, 11:30 PM
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Upendi&Mina Upendi&Mina is offline
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Originally Posted by Dogdragoness View Post
You know my yearly gross is under 40 grand, right, I am not going to say the exact number because that's no one's business but yeah, it's not like I am rolling in dough over here. And yes I do think it's irresponsible to have more kids when you can't afford the ones you have, it's IMO cruel.



And yes, my state's aid is very abused. One of the crappiest in the nation. It would be fine if that would revamp it so people who really need the help can get it and those who use it as a free ride get denied. Because right now it's people who really need it get denied and those who just want to hitchhike on the backs of taxpayers are approved.

And you are a single person with no children to support and a boyfriend who is also working. And from my understanding you either live at your job or at your parents. Not quite the same thing as trying to fully support a family.

And to be honest most people I know in my area bring home less than $20,000 a year. The average for my friends is somewhere right around $12,000-$15,000 a year if they are lucky enough to find someone actually hiring full time.

So let's take that average of $12,000 and break it down. Average rent in my area is $500 a month with no utilities included. So $500x12 is $6,000 or half of their yearly wages gone. We'll go with a conservative $150 a month electric bill which is an additional $1,800. And then of course there's water/sewage which is a minimum of $50 in my town depending on usage so that's an additional $600 a year. All of that adds up to around $8400 a year which leaves approximately $3600 for EVERYTHING ELSE YOU NEED FOR A YEAR, but wait don't forget the car to get back and forth to work because we don't have public transportation, so figure in car insurance, gas, car maintenance etc. and there just isn't much left. THAT is why so many people are on assistance. The minimum wage is far from a living wage and it's sad, especially considering in many many areas the only jobs available are minimum wage jobs. I'm sorry you don't feel those people deserve you know like food.
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  #13218  
Old 06-02-2014, 12:08 AM
ruffiangirl ruffiangirl is offline
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I live in Alberta, we pay high taxes, and I thank dog every time I have to take my kid or my self to the doctor that I don't have to worry about it my vaccinations, so I can volunteer at the hospital Wigan the old people, covered, my kids infected in grown toenail I have to have looked at this week, covered, my thumb I stabbed with a grass stalk last night, covered if I need it looked at, same goes with all my neighbours as long as they didn't move to a new province and forget switch, it's all covered for everyone. Much of our prescriptions are covered as well, and every time I have had go to a doctor I thank dog it is.

When I was a single mom my son and I were both covered for full prescriptions, and full dental as well as any other medical professional we could have ever needed. I was also given child tax benefit (everyone with child(ren) is entitled to it, it's based on wage, then I got $1500 a month, now I get nothing), and more GST rebates, and more back at the end of the year. I could have gone to the food bank, as well, my parents bought me groceries so I wouldn't have too take food that others might need more.

ALL of this was because WE all pay high taxes to help fund these programs, so that if any of us ever are in need of extra help it is there for each and every one of us...except CPP, that **** is in trouble.

Yep I will happily pay taxes, even if some systems are abused, those who need it still get to use it, this is the important part.
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  #13219  
Old 06-02-2014, 02:30 AM
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GipsyQueen GipsyQueen is offline
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As much of you know, I live in Germany. We pay a crap ton of taxes. But guess what? It means that if I, or my SO loss our jobs, we will ALWAYS have a place to live. We will always have food. And we will never have to have the heat, or electricity turned off, because we can't afford it.
Our colleges are statefunded, because of the high taxes we pay. A semester costs 250-750€. If you can't afford that, there is a system that pays for students to go to college.
I am so thankful we have universal health insurance. Just the other day, I had to pick up a new epipen, because I have server allergies, that I can die from, if I don't have the proper medication on hand. I pay exactly 5€ for my Epipen. It would have cost 150€ without insurance. An amount I cannot pay without ripping a deep hole in my pocket. But without it, my life could be at endangered.

And even if a poor family has 10 children - how is it the childs fault? They can't choose! Doesn't every child deserve a proper education and the chance to strive? Children are our futur. They are our futur working force. If we don't educate poor children, so they can't read or write, they can't work in the futur. Neither can their children, because their parents don't have an education and can't afford to send their children to school. And then, neither can their children. I'm sure you see where this is going. Esp. in a country where if you don't have a college education, you can't have high hopes of earning enough money to support a family.
So in the end, there will be more people who need assistance than there are people who work. And guess what. Then the system doesn't work anymore. If that systems fails, and hardly anyone can't afford to eat, then you've got a major problem on your hands.
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  #13220  
Old 06-02-2014, 02:47 AM
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CharlieDog CharlieDog is offline
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Between my husband and myself, our yearly gross is under 20k. That's with recieving tax breaks because I'm a full time student, and working full time, and with my husband working full time at one job and having a part time job at another.

We're not on welfare, and we don't begrudge what comes out of our paychecks. There are people out there with less. And yeah, our clothes are old, and worn out, but they're still presentable, and we both have at least one nice winter coat, though mine ripped this year, I am extremely lucky enough to have a father who will get together with my mother, and help purchase a coat for me, because the coat lasts five+ years, and otherwise, I would be buying a winter coat every year.

Yes, we have a nice TV. It was a gift from someone who grosses over 100k that I am lucky enough to have professional and personal connections with, and they thought it was weird that we didn't have a TV, so when they bought a bigger TV for their bedroom, they gave me their old one. Everything in our house has been give to us. Literally. From the computers we use, to the dishes we eat off of, it's been given to us. Our clothing is purchased from goodwill, or other thrift stores, and yeah, some of it is name brand stuff, but I promise you I didn't pay name brand price for it.

You cannot judge until you've been in that situation. We support three dogs and ourselves on 20k or less a year. We don't take financial aid, because we can make it without it, even though we qualify, there are other people who undoubtedly need it more.

We are lucky enough that our parents aren't poor, but they're certainly not even middle class. But we buy our own groceries, budget, and make it work. The dogs get the best of everything, and yeah, it'd be easier with their bills, but our lives would just be poorer because of it.

Anyway, making 40k a year, jesus christ on a bike, I can only imagine making that much money. And we're both educated people.

It's certainly a long fall off that high horse you're sitting on.
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