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  #10081  
Old 12-03-2013, 08:36 PM
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A chivalrous guy who makes you wait and wonder if he cares or if he was just yanking you along to get your number as a trophy?
Huh. Interesting definition.
In his eyes, he was waiting so that he didn't seem like he was driven to text me right away because he was so eager to get with me. It wasn't a game to him or me... He didn't want to come on too strong and scare me off or make me think he just wanted me for sex.
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  #10082  
Old 12-03-2013, 08:43 PM
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I think in situations like yours, it comes down again to being open, honest, and communicating. I think the "ultimatum" is just "you need to be honest with me, and possibly yourself, about this issue that affects our futures together." I've had this conversation with a male friend of mine before. He had a girlfriend give him the "either we get married or I'm gone" ultimatum. He told her he wasn't ready for marriage yet but wished her luck finding somebody who was. She was then like "oh wait, no, I'm not really gone." But at that point he WAS, because being given that ultimatum forced him to be honest with himself about where the relationship was going.
My sister is in a similar situation, though I don't think she knows it. She wants to have kids. If her husband doesn't, she should probably get divorced and find somebody else who DOES. That's not playing "games," it's just being honest with yourself about your future and your life. So I think Fran's point is perfect. Be honest and open and communicate.


Funny enough we just had a conversation at work today, and being the only women in an office of men, and being a woman who has always been good friends with men, it's always amusing to me how much easier life would be if only men and women just TALKED TO EACH OTHER. In PLAIN ENGLISH. WHY ARE YOU ALL MAKING THIS SO COMPLICATED. STOP.
It's not a lack of discussion on our part ..honestly. I would be straightforward if we hadn't discussed it& it was sort of a pipedream I was wishing he'd mind read from me. We have discussed it ..at one point, he said he wasn't sure he wanted to commit to me. We have a great relationship and that stung. I'm still here because I love him& I do know he loves me. I just don't know what is the end point for him. For me, it's marriage. So I gave him 18 months. Then I'm gone. It is technically an ultimatum ..but it's also reality.
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  #10083  
Old 12-03-2013, 09:38 PM
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*shrug* I don't believe in those kinds of ultimatums, I likely wouldn't make one. I don't think marriage proposals should be made under pressure, or because of fear, or because I want it, or because I'm insecure or because the sky is falling any other reason other than "I want to be with you forever let's get married" (not that I'm saying these are your reasons)
I totally understand what you are saying, you want what you want and I'm sure you have your reasons.. just not for me, not when It comes to marriage, and that's a personal thing.

I have seen far too much resentment grow and take down marriages of people I know because of similar ultimatums to ever consider one. "well she forced me to marry her" or "she said she'd leave" or "I was just so scared to be alone" or "We were signed together on the lease and I couldn't just.." "I wasn't really ready and now..." "I wish I would've waited" "I wish I could've..." "we graduated she said it was the right time.."
but again, personal issue. I'm sure it works out for plenty of people (it's not like it's unheard of for women to be the pushers when it comes to getting married), but that's my experience.

You wanna be married in 18 months, and if he doesn't purpose you'll leave, and if you REALLY mean that then by golly, good on you. You stated your terms and that's your prerogative. People have all kinds of reasons for not purposing (fear, not seeing the point, financial reasons etc..etc..) and I totally understand making it clear you WANT marriage and not wanting to waste your time on a guy who doesn't want it too. I would of course make it clear in a relationship that that's what I wanted.
We all have things we won't budge on or compromise on. I certainly understand the feelings behind yours..
I've made ultimatums before, even a few I'm not proud of, I just wouldn't do it when it comes to spending the rest of my life with someone.

it just isn't a game I would ever play.

my two cents.
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  #10084  
Old 12-03-2013, 09:52 PM
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I want what I want ..I love him, obviously or else I wouldn't still be here. It is a genuine ultimatum. He has 18 months to decide what he wants& act on it. If he decides no, I leave. It's not a surprise. It's not 'pushy' other than in the sense that yes, I do want an answer. And it's more that he said he wasn't sure he was ready to commit to me. Not to commit in general ..but that he wasn't sure about me. I love me. I'm so worth the commitment. If he's not ready, he's not ready. It's been 8yrs. I think after all those years, you should have a firm grasp on whether or not the rest of your life includes the person you're currently living with. I just got burnt by our conversation& the hurt for me in those words made me make a decision for the life of our relationship.

It's not like it's been 8 months& I'm psycho. Trust me, I feel psycho enough already about the situation.. I just want a commitment& to run away& elope. He's been there through some hard times& almost all the good ones. There are days I wake up, look around& think 'why am I even still here if he doesn't want to make a commitment? I feel like an idiot waiting on someone else to decide when to be done with this relationship.' but most days I love him enough to wait it out ..but only for my timeframe. I can't wait forever ..and I can't explain why it's so important to me to be married. It just is.

There are certain things people don't (and shouldn't) budge on. Me giving him an ultimatum means that he has a chance to decide what matters more to him- his relationship or his uncertainties in the relationship. I won't be bitter either way ..I just also can't not give us a timeframe& wait here forever in a stagnant state. The ultimatum keeps me from being bitter if it does end up in the trash!

Edit- this is also my crazy personal issue. So I'm probably slightly unreasonable& just think I am LOL! I recognize that.. I just also recognize I would truly be unhappy living unmarried forever. And I can't even explain why. It just feels so juvenile to be grown adults, together for years, introducing one another as BF/GF~!@ because one person wants to not commit!
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  #10085  
Old 12-03-2013, 10:07 PM
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I see giving a reasonable ultimatum on marriage as very necessary to NOT cause long term issues and resentment in the relationship. Its not something you should force one into, no, but at the same time, no one should be forced to not be married just because their SO doesnt want to if its really important to them.

I personally think its much more responsible to say "Hey look, I am not ok with keeping on the way we are. I am giving you x amount of time to think about it and come to a decision" then to just break up with someone or to stay with them with all kinds of resentment festering.

I do think SOMETIMES it can be a game or a force the issue thing, but in this situation, yeah, not at all.
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  #10086  
Old 12-03-2013, 10:15 PM
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I see giving a reasonable ultimatum on marriage as very necessary to NOT cause long term issues and resentment in the relationship. Its not something you should force one into, no, but at the same time, no one should be forced to not be married just because their SO doesnt want to if its really important to them.

I personally think its much more responsible to say "Hey look, I am not ok with keeping on the way we are. I am giving you x amount of time to think about it and come to a decision" then to just break up with someone or to stay with them with all kinds of resentment festering.

I do think SOMETIMES it can be a game or a force the issue thing, but in this situation, yeah, not at all.
Thank you. This post actually made me feel sane in all my decisions. Seriously! None of what I've done has been vindictive or to push him into marriage. Just to have a decision made.
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  #10087  
Old 12-03-2013, 10:23 PM
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Oh, that's BS too, as humans we judge people off single interactions all the time. We even judge people we don't know and have NEVER interacted with off articles on the interwebs.
I judge Justin Bieber. I judge hard. >=| Never met him. Still judging. Judgey McJudgerson.



I agree with this.

People can certainly play games if they want, but they shouldn't do it pretending they aren't hurting people's feelings along the way. Because that's what it does.



I think in situations like yours, it comes down again to being open, honest, and communicating. I think the "ultimatum" is just "you need to be honest with me, and possibly yourself, about this issue that affects our futures together." I've had this conversation with a male friend of mine before. He had a girlfriend give him the "either we get married or I'm gone" ultimatum. He told her he wasn't ready for marriage yet but wished her luck finding somebody who was. She was then like "oh wait, no, I'm not really gone." But at that point he WAS, because being given that ultimatum forced him to be honest with himself about where the relationship was going.
My sister is in a similar situation, though I don't think she knows it. She wants to have kids. If her husband doesn't, she should probably get divorced and find somebody else who DOES. That's not playing "games," it's just being honest with yourself about your future and your life. So I think Fran's point is perfect. Be honest and open and communicate.


Funny enough we just had a conversation at work today, and being the only women in an office of men, and being a woman who has always been good friends with men, it's always amusing to me how much easier life would be if only men and women just TALKED TO EACH OTHER. In PLAIN ENGLISH. WHY ARE YOU ALL MAKING THIS SO COMPLICATED. STOP.
To be fair ... Even in the cyber age ... There are guys who just aren't good at texting. Like they can never get the rules in when to text and hoe long they should wait .... It doesn't make them bad guys.
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  #10088  
Old 12-03-2013, 10:41 PM
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Ultimately what it sounds like is that you only want marriage. You don't want marriage with him. As harsh as it sounds, if you were willing to marry this man, you would stay with him. Marriage isn't about getting what you want out of a person. You can love someone, and not want to marry them. It's okay. If you are willing to leave him because he won't marry you, it's safe to say that you really don't love him all that much. Because when it comes down to it....you stay with a person because you love them unconditionally. The problem with marriage these days (and I say this as someone divorced and in another serious relationship) is that it is conditional. As someone who married young, I'll say that it isn't taken seriously. Fran's post is 100% on point.

I firmly suggest everyone to read the "Marriage isn't about You" article. Because it is absolutely true. There is zero room in a relationship for selfishness that includes statements like, "I want what I want", "I love me", and "I am worth the commitment". If that is so very true, then you will certainly leave him in 18 months. But it won't matter, because at that rate, it was doomed anyway. Because marriage is THAT important to you.

And that is absolutely reasonable. Sometimes you realize you can't stay with a person forever. I divorced Jin. BeAu is sitting next to me because of the same pressures. His fiancee wanted marriage. He proposed (just turned and asked him), "to shut her up".

So it is a little of both. But don't stay for 18 months. Just go ahead and go. If it is THAT important to you, then just leave now. Turn the ultimatum on yourself. When pressured, you realize what you really want. When I had that first chance, I left Jin.

The most telling part to me? In this very thread, when I finally announced it to everyone...Chazzers said, "I'm so happy for you. It was obvious you were not happy."

BeAu wants marriage. I told him maybe, maybe not. I asked him, "Will you leave me if I don't marry you?"

"No. Why would I do that? Why would I want to give up something that is awesome just because you won't marry me?"

Forever is just good enough for us.

So my tl;dr....just find out what you really want, and who you are willing to give "forever" to.
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  #10089  
Old 12-03-2013, 10:47 PM
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It's not a lack of discussion on our part ..honestly. I would be straightforward if we hadn't discussed it& it was sort of a pipedream I was wishing he'd mind read from me. We have discussed it ..at one point, he said he wasn't sure he wanted to commit to me. We have a great relationship and that stung. I'm still here because I love him& I do know he loves me. I just don't know what is the end point for him. For me, it's marriage. So I gave him 18 months. Then I'm gone. It is technically an ultimatum ..but it's also reality.
Oh, I didn't mean to imply it's that you guys haven't talked about it. I know you have because I read your post previously about it. And honestly, it breaks my heart that you're in that situation. I can't imagine being with somebody for eight years and then hearing them say they aren't sure they're ready to commit. I would be way overstepping my bounds to give you any further input on the situation, but I know you've talked about it.
I still stand by that I think situations like that arise from a lack of honesty, often with one's self more than one's significant other. Not that I believe anybody is setting out to deceive, just that often we don't think of things until we HAVE to... and then sometimes we don't like what we find.

I've said it before on this forum... I left a guy I loved and who loved me because I knew our lives were heading in different directions. I could have stayed with him, if I had, we would probably be married right now. But I can honestly say I don't believe I would be happy. So I left, because sometimes, love is just not enough. I didn't give him any ultimatums, in fact I lied about why we were breaking up to try and save some heartache, some arguing, some "but I love you, don't go." (Here's a relationship hint: don't lie about why you're breaking up... you might think you're avoiding the heartache, but as it turns out, you're only delaying it. And then you have to fess up to lying on top of everything else. Bad.)

Calling it an ultimatum is... well, I don't think it's a conversation I would have exactly. I HATE the "define the relationship" talk but I have had a relationship where I had a "so where do you see this going..?" talk to make sure we were on the same page. (We weren't. MISSION ABORT MISSION ABORT.) I think giving him time to think it over is wise and calm, I'm not sure I would lay out a strict timetable, but I think after you've brought the subject up as "this is what I'm looking for, and if we're not going the same direction, we should consider parting ways." I just think it can be an entirely reasonable and logical discussion rather than the "Either I have a ring in eighteen months or I'm leaving you!!" kind of discussion I think "ultimatum" conjures up. Maybe that's the discussion you personally had, LOL, I don't know. It doesn't have to be that way though. I think two mature adults (and I'm just speaking in general terms here) can have conversations about the future of a relationship without one person then whining later that they were manipulated into something.


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Originally Posted by Lyzelle View Post
Ultimately what it sounds like is that you only want marriage. You don't want marriage with him. As harsh as it sounds, if you were willing to marry this man, you would stay with him. Marriage isn't about getting what you want out of a person. You can love someone, and not want to marry them. It's okay. If you are willing to leave him because he won't marry you, it's safe to say that you really don't love him all that much.
I don't think that is true at all. To some people, marriage is FAR more than "I'm just here with this person I love exactly like we were when we were dating." In fact, to MOST people it is. Because I don't know a single married couple who would disagree that marriage changes things.
Even in this specific case, he said he wasn't sure if he wanted to commit to her. Even to her SO, marriage is a commitment that goes beyond "we're still dating." So no, this is not a question of "do I love you?" It's a question of "am I prepared to commit the rest of my life to you?"

If you are prepared to commit the rest of your life to somebody who is not willing to do the same for you - welcome to codependency.
PS: codependency is not love, no matter what Hollywood wants you to think.
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  #10090  
Old 12-03-2013, 10:49 PM
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Apply with Enterprise Rent a Car. We're always hiring.
Thanks! I'll check them out in my area.
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