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  #351  
Old 09-08-2012, 01:37 PM
SevenSins
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Originally Posted by Pops2 View Post
you missed the point of post 314.
2. looks are NOT the ONLY defining factor of a breed, which is why we have both the drathaar & the german wirehair, or the fox, parson russel & Jack russell terriers. to some people the difference in personality is more important than the difference in looks (or lack thereof).
I never said appearance was the only defining characteristic of a breed. But you've still managed to avoid actually addressing the questions I posed...it's that whole catch-22 thing, and it's uncomfortable.
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  #352  
Old 09-08-2012, 01:55 PM
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Ok, so we've established that the goal of matching dogs was to prove gameness. And...then what? What purpose did gameness serve that you needed to prove it so badly? And what about matching a dog to another DOG proved it so well? Why isn't hog hunting seen as a valid way to prove gameness? I mean, a hog is what, three or four times the dog's size, with giant tusks (the better to gore them with), keen intelligence, formidable strength and the battle ground is a whole forest they know like the back of their hoof. But yet, putting two dogs of comparable size, strength and intelligence in a small ring together where they have nowhere to go but at each other is the BEST way to test gameness? It seems to me a dog would have to be pretty dam* badass to chase a wild dog, corner it, bite it, and hold on as the giant pissed off creature fights for its life with everything it's got.

I can't support dog fighting because I don't see the purpose of it. Hog hunting I can see, hogs are overrunning parts of the US, plus I hear they taste pretty good. Can't eat them myself, stomach issues, but I won't stand in somebody's way if they like some good wild-caught meat.
only dogs & people will continue to fight after they have lost (although there is some indication jaguars & ocelots will try but they are relatively fragile). nearly all animals even big predators like bears will seek to run more than fight & when the option of running is exhausted they will offer a limited fight & then just lay down to be killed. so the ONLY way to consistantly test gameness is by matching two relatively game dogs to find out which is more game.
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  #353  
Old 09-08-2012, 02:00 PM
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the mal was NOT bred to fight other dogs, so it's ability to work undistracted by other dogs is NOT a failing but a plus.
So an APBT (or Amstaff) that can work around other dogs is a failure? Just trying to understand your logic.
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  #354  
Old 09-08-2012, 02:00 PM
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the mal was NOT bred to fight other dogs, so it's ability to work undistracted by other dogs is NOT a failing but a plus.
Thanks for the education. that's not the point of the snark.
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  #355  
Old 09-08-2012, 02:11 PM
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the mal was NOT bred to fight other dogs, so it's ability to work undistracted by other dogs is NOT a failing but a plus.
I think this is part of what's at the heart of much of the trouble in the Pitbull world. You have people who love the look, or some aspect of the personality, but want a dog that, other than one or two characteristics, is entirely different than what the APBT has been bred to be over so many generations. They don't want an APBT, not really, so they want to change it, finding fault with the parts of the breed that don't suit them.

It's become a diverse type, for better or worse, and now we have to deal with it somehow, whether it's by dividing and labeling the different types . . . or something else. I don't know.

Ego gets in the way and everyone else's dogs/breed gets smack talked against because they don't live up to what someone else wants. Do we all think our breed is the most special, wonderful on the planet? Sure! As it should be. But denigrating other breeds or types won't make ours more special or better. Yeah. My own dogs are the best. FOR ME. And Adrianne's are the best. FOR HER. Staci's for her, Pops' for him . . .

Some of the hardcore, APBT = real dog/AmStaff = fake APBT who get up in arms about dual registries and the public equating one with the other might stand back and take a good look at how much GOOD these "watered down shells" are doing for the Pitbull type's image in the public eye. They're far more commonly seen by the general public, being AKCed, and, overall, represent the type in a way that the public can accept, even embrace, not that the APBT couldn't, but face it, there's a real stigma attached -- unjustly -- to the name. I will wager that many of the people who recoiled from Tallulah and have called her an assortment of nasty names wouldn't have batted an eyelash if I'd told them she was a Staffy.
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  #356  
Old 09-08-2012, 02:17 PM
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The "it's not a real APBT if it's not a dog reactive fool" or "you're not a good APBT owner if you expect your dog to maintain composure" mentality is damning.

Those thoughts are holding this breed from being embraced in modern society.

And thus ensues the infighting.
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  #357  
Old 09-08-2012, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SevenSins View Post
I never said appearance was the only defining characteristic of a breed. But you've still managed to avoid actually addressing the questions I posed...it's that whole catch-22 thing, and it's uncomfortable.
i've never seen them in the box so i can't say which is the real pit bulldog
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  #358  
Old 09-08-2012, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kady05 View Post
So an APBT (or Amstaff) that can work around other dogs is a failure? Just trying to understand your logic.
nope, just saying that a dog of a breed NOT designed for battling other dogs NOT showing DA is NOT a shell of a dog
been plenty of champions that were cold until dropped in the box and got cold again once you picked them up.
BUT a dog that is 100% cold 100% of the time is NOT a pit bulldog and a lot of people would like pit bulldog & APBT to be 100% synonymous. i tend to lean that way but i'm not 100% committed to the idea.
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  #359  
Old 09-08-2012, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
The "it's not a real APBT if it's not a dog reactive fool" or "you're not a good APBT owner if you expect your dog to maintain composure" mentality is damning.

Those thoughts are holding this breed from being embraced in modern society.

And thus ensues the infighting.

And thus seals the coffin.
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  #360  
Old 09-08-2012, 02:37 PM
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i've never seen them in the box so i can't say which is the real pit bulldog
So your opinion then is that NO dog can be called APBT unless it's been in the pit? Then what do you propose we call the other 90%?
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