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  #11  
Old 08-25-2012, 03:08 PM
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I do think that shelters and rescues need to have their animals altered before being adopted out. For me personally, I prefer to leave a dog intact until mature/as close to maturity as possible, but I will alter all my dogs unless I have a specific reason not to. With a male horse I would leave a colt intact for as long as possible to let him fill out, but as soon as he starts getting too "study" the nuts would be gone.
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  #12  
Old 08-25-2012, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Emily View Post
For me? If they're still breathing, they're too young.

For shelters? I dunno, I don't really blame them for wanting all the animals sterilized before they leave, but I think it would be enormously beneficial for the very young animals to explore things like partial spays and vasectomies. Of course, that would mean a vet would have to be willing to do those things!

For the general public... yeah, like I said, I wish more vets would do sterilizations that preserve normal hormone function. I also think dogs would benefit enormously from being left intact until at least 18-24 mo. It's painfully obvious to me at work which dogs were intact until adulthood and which ones weren't. I wish every dog got that advantage.
What differences do you see? I'm genuinely curious - I've done a lot of research on the health benefits/risks of sterilizing/not sterilizing, but I haven't seen a lot on the social/temperament aspect. Both of my dogs were sterilized as adults, and all of my fosters have been adults who were sterilized shortly before they came to me or while they were with me.
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  #13  
Old 08-25-2012, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JustaLilBitaLuck View Post
What differences do you see? I'm genuinely curious - I've done a lot of research on the health benefits/risks of sterilizing/not sterilizing, but I haven't seen a lot on the social/temperament aspect. Both of my dogs were sterilized as adults, and all of my fosters have been adults who were sterilized shortly before they came to me or while they were with me.
Physically, they're far better developed. In females, it's milder, they simply seem to have a more natural shape and carry weight much better. In males it's like painful, those altered "late" have large heads, necks, shoulders, are much better proportioned in general. The neuters done before maturity tend to appear slab-sided, narrow fronts, small heads. I've yet to be surprised by a client telling me, "He was HUMPING? But he got 'snipped' at 5 months!" vs. them telling me a dog was rescue as an adult (likely intact until then) etc. I can spot the "manly" boys from a mile away.

We even had a young female dog come into work that I looked at wondered if she was really spayed. Turned out she had a retained ovary and came into "heat" shortly after she first started coming to us.

Behaviorally, they act... neutered, lol, in the purist sense of the word. Genderless. That's what some people want, actually, I just happen to find it weird. They do tend to act slightly... immature. I'm not sure that behavioral differences are particularly significant though, tbh. The early neuters still mark and hump, they just kinda look like they have no idea why they're doing it, LOL! (ETA) Intact or late altered males seems to be very clear that they're marking their territory, or interested in girls, etc, in contrast.

Don't get me wrong, there are exceptions, of course, but this is what I've seen by far and large.
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  #14  
Old 08-25-2012, 04:54 PM
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Personally like most people on Chaz I like to leave them till they are mature, if speuter at all. I really wanted to get my cat done young, but then after something seirous though I realized he has no NEGATIVE behaviors around being intact. So... might as well leave him.

Bandit was done at 3 because I really didn't want to own an intact dog. He had no negative behaviors either it was just a choice I made at that time.

For shelters I think they should alter before they leave. So yes, while some of those animals will be altered before I personally would like I think they are just doing what they need to help pet population issues.
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  #15  
Old 08-25-2012, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily View Post
Physically, they're far better developed. In females, it's milder, they simply seem to have a more natural shape and carry weight much better. In males it's like painful, those altered "late" have large heads, necks, shoulders, are much better proportioned in general. The neuters done before maturity tend to appear slab-sided, narrow fronts, small heads. I've yet to be surprised by a client telling me, "He was HUMPING? But he got 'snipped' at 5 months!" vs. them telling me a dog was rescue as an adult (likely intact until then) etc. I can spot the "manly" boys from a mile away.

We even had a young female dog come into work that I looked at wondered if she was really spayed. Turned out she had a retained ovary and came into "heat" shortly after she first started coming to us.

Behaviorally, they act... neutered, lol, in the purist sense of the word. Genderless. That's what some people want, actually, I just happen to find it weird. They do tend to act slightly... immature. I'm not sure that behavioral differences are particularly significant though, tbh. The early neuters still mark and hump, they just kinda look like they have no idea why they're doing it, LOL! (ETA) Intact or late altered males seems to be very clear that they're marking their territory, or interested in girls, etc, in contrast.

Don't get me wrong, there are exceptions, of course, but this is what I've seen by far and large.
This has been my experience as well. Early neutered animals look weedier to me than dogs neutered late. I'm speaking of both males and females when I say neutered there. Guess altered would be better, but yeah. Huge difference in the boys. If you're not shy lol you can see the boys "junk" looks just like a puppies. Which is very weird to me.

Girls do tend to hide early altering better.
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  #16  
Old 08-25-2012, 05:00 PM
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[QUOTE=Emily;2048611 partial spays and vasectomies.[/QUOTE]

I've never heard of partial spays/vasectomies. What are they exactly? How benefits do they have?
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  #17  
Old 08-25-2012, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieDog View Post
This has been my experience as well. Early neutered animals look weedier to me than dogs neutered late. I'm speaking of both males and females when I say neutered there. Guess altered would be better, but yeah. Huge difference in the boys. If you're not shy lol you can see the boys "junk" looks just like a puppies. Which is very weird to me.

Girls do tend to hide early altering better.
^ Yup. Finn got neutered almost RIGHT at six months due to being cryptorchid (vet wanted to do it earlier, I met in the middle). His repro organs hadn't matured fully. Overall he turned out well-developed anyway, which I'm thankful for. He's filled out nicely, nice lines and structure, but you can't even see his sheath in photos and such, it's puppy-sized. Not that I WANT to see it per se, but it still bothers me. It's a reminder of the poor decision I made.

As a whole, I'm a fan of waiting at least a year if not more to alter, but if I get any future breeder dogs I will likely leave them intact.
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  #18  
Old 08-25-2012, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BostonBanker View Post
This. I will never, never judge a rescue for neutering their dogs before they are adopted out.

For personally owned dogs? I also don't think there is An Answer. For some people, it may be quite young. For some people, it may be never. I had my male done at 10/11 months, and I've had people give me grief for doing it both too soon and too late. You'll never win, no matter what you decide.
Agreed about the rescue thing. While I'm not keen on spaying/neutering a young puppy, I'd rather spay or neuter at 8-10 weeks than send the dog home where it won't be spayed or neutered at all.

Dusk was neutered early and he's... just weird. I don't think it has too much to do with him being neutered early, he's just weird, but his dong is also teeny tiny.

Eve was spayed when she was 4. I'm glad I waited quite a while.
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  #19  
Old 08-25-2012, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TahlzK View Post
I've never heard of partial spays/vasectomies. What are they exactly? How benefits do they have?
In females, a typical spay is an ovariohysterectomy, the removal of both ovaries and the uterus. To do a partial spay, you would remove the uterus only, making the dog incapable of going into heat or becoming pregnant, but the ovaries are still there and still releasing many of the hormones. You could also (theoretically) do a tubal ligation (just severing the fallopian tubes), the dog would have hormones and heat cycles, but couldn't get pregnant.

In males, a typical neuter is a castration, the complete removal of the testicles - no testicles, no sperm, no babies. A vasectomy would just be the severing of the vas deferens, so the dog could still ejaculate, but wouldn't be able to impregnante another dog.

Neither option are popular in veterinary medicine.
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  #20  
Old 08-25-2012, 07:11 PM
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LOL about the small junk, you guys, so true. True for girls too, actually, but you're way less likely to notice. Mackenzy has no nipples. NO. NIPPLES. YOU GUYS. They're flat spots. As for her vajayjay... the running joke is that it only exists in theory, nobody's actually seen it.
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