Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dog Training Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-25-2012, 02:23 AM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,036
Default Heeling - lag in a figure 8

So, Logan is almost ready to try for his BN/CD/UCD except for one thing - he lags in the figure 8. Every. Single. Time. It doesn't matter which direction we go in, he will lag whenever we reach the part where he would have to speed up to keep up with me / so when he's on the outside as I turn right around the cone/person/whatnot.

Occasionally he'll lag a bit during a heeling pattern other than the figure 8, but it's usually at the end of training (we can be at the building for 3-4 hours at a time when I run the open training days for our dog club, plus or minus a 3 mile walk to get there...he's not training the whole time of course, but it's still a long day and he gets tired).

I just didn't expect lagging to be an issue - when he's working, he works out ahead of me (I'm near the back of his rib cage/flank) so I always figured if we'd have a heeling problem, it would be forging, not lagging.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-25-2012, 02:39 AM
Red.Apricot's Avatar
Red.Apricot Red.Apricot is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,844
Default

For Elsie, if I jogged that part, so she had to speed up to keep up with me, after a few figure eights, she got better.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-25-2012, 09:49 AM
Danefied's Avatar
Danefied Danefied is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Southeast
Posts: 1,722
Default

I have the same problem. Iíve found that giving my dog cues with my eyes and shoulders and being consistent with those cues really helps.

There are a lot of tricks you can try like running away around the turn, chasing a treat or a toy on the outside, but eventually youíre going to have to get a consistent heel without those tricks, and thatís where those cues really help.
__________________
"We become better trainers by refusing to swallow uncritically what is tossed to us as truth,
by developing our powers of empathy and observation,
and by searching for better ways to teach and educate the dogs we love."
~Suzanne Clothier
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-25-2012, 09:58 AM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,893
Default

Taking the corner and tossing a treat helps some dogs, Have you tried this? Also putting fast on cue? It's probably become habit by now so retraining cornering behavior will likely be needed.

Ive seen people whisper hurry hurry hurry and if they nail it they toss a toy or give a treat. This came be phased out through practice.

Is he lagging around people or any object? Backup hates being close to people so we give them a bit more space, judges ask for approximately an arms length, where as with Arnold I can hug a stranger fig 8 without issue.

Lastly some teach a forging for this exercise and call it something else to inform the dog. Forging can be taught by delivering the reward from the right training the dog to keep up and wrap the handler for their reward.
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-25-2012, 10:00 AM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,893
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danefied View Post
I have the same problem. Iíve found that giving my dog cues with my eyes and shoulders and being consistent with those cues really helps.

.
I've found a slightly chin turn and shoulder tilt helps cue Backup for sure.
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-25-2012, 10:09 AM
Aleron's Avatar
Aleron Aleron is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 2,270
Default

I had this issue with Whim when she was younger on the Figure 8 - it's a very common problem. She doesn't lag otherwise, just there. I worked on it by treating out of my right hand across my body on that part, so she had to really wrap all the way around me to get the reward. Basically "over correcting" the lag by rewarding a forge there, which evened out to remaining in heel.

As for your other laggyness...a few things come to mind. Are you working heeling in long segments or short spurts? Is he in drive and engaged prior to starting than he gets laggy? Is there anything about you're body language that is pushing him back? Things like looking back at him, turning your shoulder back, etc can cause lagging sometimes. Also too much "cheerleading" trying to get them out of lagging can just produce more.
__________________
Nikki & the Herding Breed Variety Pack
Visit Us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Alerondogs
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-25-2012, 11:03 AM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,036
Default

I definitely need to pay attemtion to my own body language - that's probably my biggest weakness. I have terrible body awareness.

We were playing around a bit a few minutes ago (I'm the only one here for open training since everyone else went to a trial this weekend) and if I say "Yes!" S we start the turn he keeps up perfectly. I will try a few other things and see what works.

It's anything, not just people. He LOVES people lol
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-27-2012, 10:19 AM
Sekah's Avatar
Sekah Sekah is offline
The Monster.
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,252
Default

On top of what's been mentioned already, are you making sure you're walking in straight lines between the posts? Basically think of the Figure-8 as an "X" with a rounded bulb on each end. If your route is curved throughout the exercise your dog will have a harder time maintaining position. Take advantage of your straightaways where your dog can predict your speed/position/movement a bit better.
__________________

Cheynat's O' Lady Midnight CD RE ADC SGDC FDCh-S CGN HIC, Esq.
Megatron, Heat Vampire
Ci Da: Good Dog
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-27-2012, 10:20 AM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,893
Default

We go as far as to tape an X on the ground to help practice.
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-27-2012, 02:02 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,036
Default

Hmmm, straight lines...I can't say for sure if I'm doing it truly straight or not. I will have to pay attention to that.

So far jogging the turn and treating from the right has helped quite a bit! Thanks everyone for all the input!

Logan also did a full-height, full distance recall over jump on Saturday for the first time
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:17 PM.


©1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site