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  #11  
Old 08-21-2012, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Quit your bitching, YOU people don't live 20 minutes from him and see him at most every dog event.

Punks.

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lol, sooooooo just how does his dogs do at those events?
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  #12  
Old 08-23-2012, 05:03 AM
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I saw him at a dog expo with a Malinois wearing a shock collar and being actively shocked, just sitting by his booth!!! The dog was so miserable and uncomfortable, ears back, shivering. He refused to leash the dog even though he was asked and it was a mandatory rule for the expo. I heard him telling some people who stopped at the booth "They want me to leash MY DOG! Because their dogs aren't trained well enough to be off leash!" Ok buddy. I'm real impressed by that poor shutdown dog.

I was doing a flyball demo there, and our team leader/trainer went over and cussed him out. It was good stuff.
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  #13  
Old 08-23-2012, 05:28 AM
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I'll ask my trainer about that video when she gets back from holidays...

Saint (the dog) is really sweet and super social. He's beautiful and has a really huge head; from Czech working lines. He's 11 now and my trainer doesn't compete with him or take him out to do trials any longer.
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  #14  
Old 08-23-2012, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihartgonzo View Post

I was doing a flyball demo there, and our team leader/trainer went over and cussed him out. It was good stuff.
Haha, I would love to see that. What did he do?
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  #15  
Old 08-23-2012, 07:57 AM
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I guarantee he did the same thing Fred always does, grins, grumbles, and moves on. Trust me, he's been attacked a lot in the past 10 years of SMS.

If you want real entertainment go to Workingdogforum and search the company name.

He does DD here but elsewise he just attends events and does not compete. He's not in dogs for competition, just the business of them. His labs are actually pretty impressive, his new pup coal is beautiful, but any dog that takes what he gives and isn't shut down impresses me. Coal was on an ecollar at 8 weeks when his wife and I were on the same FB team.

Its more of his other trainers who compete around here in DDs that keep a lot of us laughing. I have no problem with ecollars in training but when that is all you use and you're using it as an avoidance tool the dog is dumb without the collar because of its near constant use by SMS theory.

Many of them get up on the dock an have to re-sit their dogs 10 times more often than the average pet owner. Some are impressive, Baxter (Tonys dog) & Yaeger (Dave's dog), but some make the rest of us feel pretty smug in our training skills.

I get a lot of retrains for SMS at my work because their international head quarters and founders reside here. Many clients have decided its too cruel or too unreliable and they take off the collar to find not only a dog with no manners but a dog with an extremely high correction threshold, it really complicates things to an annoying degree.

I wish they weren't so huge, I wish they didn't sponsor Las Vegas Dock Dogs but we do find some dark comedy watching them try to control their dogs when forced to remove their collars on the competition dock.
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  #16  
Old 08-23-2012, 08:11 AM
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SMS is a franchise started by Fred Hassen but now all across the country. This is the one closest to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t81Sx...eature=related

And more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XouMd...feature=relmfu

The thing that gets me is that they always, always have the e-collars on the dog and remote in hand during all their "look how awesomely trained these dogs are" videos. Some people object to training with food because they are worried about always having to have it on them. How are they convincing pet owners they must live with remote in hand 24/7...forever? Funny thing about the videos I posted is that they were shot at different expos at the IX Center - a place where there is a huge, well attended by the public dog show every December. But SMS can't come to the dog show because their dogs have to wear e-collars and e-collars aren't allowed at the dog show.

I am curious how Hassen's dog does in competitions. He actually takes the e-collar off and sets down the remote occasionally?!

ETA: Posting the same time you were Adrianne! Interesting.
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  #17  
Old 08-23-2012, 08:57 AM
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Lol we joke it's surgically attached to his hand. Again it's morbid humor but at ISE in Vegas last winter we watched a trainer sans dog walking with a remote in his hand and we swore we saw some flinching of the thumb as if it felt unnatural to not be clicking it.

Truth is, and they make no lies about it, it's a very quick and effective way to train. Then again people don't grasp for some reason that you will always need a shocky box to keep the peace. It impresses me, sadly, that people will debate our costs sometimes and yet the gal I used to train with bought an SMS and is now supposedly turning over 200k a year between her and her boyfriend in training and collar sales.

The things that get me are the collars (duh) they use sport dog collars which suck. They also use 1 size fits all unless they've changed recently, so I've seen paps with boxes as big as their heads hanging off the neck. And lastly, they move to the belly/groin when the neck is no longer sensitive enough. At that point buddy, you're a schmuck.
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  #18  
Old 08-23-2012, 09:43 AM
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I saw these comments posted and the words sit Means Sit that makes me sick. That's why I said what I did in the thread about taking training advice from vets. I have seen and heard so manydumb recommendations. And dumb books in their waiting rooms I could pull my hair out grrr
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  #19  
Old 08-23-2012, 09:47 AM
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There really ought to be a law it's mistreatment animal abuse I hate that those poor dogs

Sorry...on cell phone
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  #20  
Old 08-23-2012, 09:55 AM
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I don't believe the use of ecollars is abuse, I would fight that law tooth and nail. That said, I do agree their training methods are not humane.

The best option is education, we employ this all the time and while SMS still makes plenty of money we have turned many clients to the "bright side" through examples of our dogs and their own. Truth is without clients they wouldn't be where they are.
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