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  #11  
Old 08-16-2012, 02:02 PM
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I guess my thing is marriage is a CONTRACT that has numerous benefits that are legal and binding...yes, government is involved in that and I want it to stay that way. Gay couples absolutely deserve those same benefits.
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Greenmagick View Post
I guess my thing is marriage is a CONTRACT that has numerous benefits that are legal and binding...yes, government is involved in that and I want it to stay that way. Gay couples absolutely deserve those same benefits.
What you believe is totally up to you. and I applaud you for making this post because it is refreshing to see a christian POV that isn't so erm..hateful.
but what greenmagick mentions is my thing as well. I just don't think the government or ANY religion has any business meddling in these kinds of things or has the right to dictate who can/can't get married based on their rules that not everyone chooses to follow.
"Marriage can be a religious thing. It can also be a secular thing. And guess what? Not everyone in the world is of the same religion or of any religion at all. Preventing gay people from getting married is not an expression of religious freedom. It’s an expression of religious oppression"

I believe in the separation of church and state. It's there for a reason.

You have the right to believe/not believe what you wish and I think it's great that what you believe doesn't involve hating other people. I hate when people assume that because I fight separation of church and state that I have something AGAINST christians/religion. Which I totally don't!
as Matthew Shultz said.
“You’re allowed to believe in a god. You’re allowed to believe unicorns live in your shoes for all I care. But the day you start telling me how to wear my shoes so I don’t upset the unicorns, I have a problem with you. The day you start involving the unicorns in making decisions for this country, I have a BIG problem with you.”
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  #13  
Old 08-16-2012, 02:55 PM
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You’re allowed to believe unicorns live in your shoes for all I care. But the day you start telling me how to wear my shoes so I don’t upset the unicorns, I have a problem with you. The day you start involving the unicorns in making decisions for this country, I have a BIG problem with you.”
Don't be so silly!
Unicorns would never fit in a shoe.

And now you leave me wondering just what the country would be like if it was run by unicorns.
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  #14  
Old 08-16-2012, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Fran101 View Post
What you believe is totally up to you. and I applaud you for making this post because it is refreshing to see a christian POV that isn't so erm..hateful.
but what greenmagick mentions is my thing as well. I just don't think the government or ANY religion has any business meddling in these kinds of things or has the right to dictate who can/can't get married based on their rules that not everyone chooses to follow.
"Marriage can be a religious thing. It can also be a secular thing. And guess what? Not everyone in the world is of the same religion or of any religion at all. Preventing gay people from getting married is not an expression of religious freedom. It’s an expression of religious oppression"

I believe in the separation of church and state. It's there for a reason.

You have the right to believe/not believe what you wish and I think it's great that what you believe doesn't involve hating other people. I hate when people assume that because I fight separation of church and state that I have something AGAINST christians/religion. Which I totally don't!
as Matthew Shultz said.
.”
And I dislike that if you are against homosexuality that it means you hate homosexuals and you are a bigot and trying to take away civil rights. It sucks when you believe something and the opposing side twists it to mean you mist hate the person or be against them doesn't it?

It would be nice if we could just leave marriage to whatever venue you choose to get married in and then file the contract with the government for the legal perks instead of the government getting to decide who, how, why and so on. Leave it up to private entitys to decide who to marry and then file the paper work for the legal aspect after just like you file for the name change stuff rther than needing permission from te government to get the license in the first place.
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sparks19 View Post
It would be nice if we could just leave marriage to whatever venue you choose to get married in and then file the contract with the government for the legal perks instead of the government getting to decide who, how, why and so on. Leave it up to private entitys to decide who to marry and then file the paper work for the legal aspect after just like you file for the name change stuff rther than needing permission from te government to get the license in the first place.
Exactly!

And yes, the whole twisting thing pisses me off too, in every way. It's propaganda, pure and simple, of the lowest most obvious sort. Are there some people who are against someTHING and also hate someONE? Sure. But it's not everyone, and usually those are the people who are doing the twisting anyway, or falling for it.

One of the worst is the way somehow "Pro-choice" is turned into "pro-abortion." I don't know too many people who like the idea of abortion or are FOR abortions -- I do know, though (myself included) many people who are for not handing over a personal issue to the federal government. Big difference. But "pro-abortion" gets people riled up and reacting with their knees jerking instead of thinking.

Imagine how the issue of "gay marriage" would be perceived if it were more accurately talked about as "equal marriage."
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  #16  
Old 08-16-2012, 03:43 PM
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[QUOTE=sparks19;2043266

It would be nice if we could just leave marriage to whatever venue you choose to get married in and then file the contract with the government for the legal perks instead of the government getting to decide who, how, why and so on. [/QUOTE]

This is kind of the point of legalizing gay marriage....government deciding that ANY two consenting adults can get married and the perks there of. Therefore they are NOT deciding who, how, and why. There are PLENTY of people who just want a legal marriage with no ceremony, tradition, venue, etc attached so I dont see how government can be completely out of it. Take of the restriction of two men or two women NOT being able to marry, then let the individual intstitutions do what they want (like the already do).
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:46 PM
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At the end of the day though, actions speak louder than anything else to me. So how you treat anyone of a different sexuality from you is what I believe is important. And it makes me happy that there are people that can still treat those who they see doing something wrong with as much kindness and courtesy as anyone else.

But that doesn't mean that one day I hope that a piece of what makes up someone, that harms no one and involves no one other than other consenting adults is not seen as something to be forgiven on par with other wrong doings and "sins" and is rather seen as just a person, living their life.

That being said, I do believe the government should be out of religion completely and that includes marriage. I don't think marriage should give you any legal rights. I think civil unions should be equal to what marriage is now in the eyes of the law. But, if marriage is going to be part of the government I do take issue with gay marriage not being allowed. Pick one or the other.
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:49 PM
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Agree with the first two paragraphs completely but this one...
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Originally Posted by Linds View Post
That being said, I do believe the government should be out of religion completely and that includes marriage. I don't think marriage should give you any legal rights. I think civil unions should be equal to what marriage is now in the eyes of the law. But, if marriage is going to be part of the government I do take issue with gay marriage not being allowed. Pick one or the other.
What bothers me...marriage is NOT religious. Religions use it yes, but in and of itself marriage is secular. Why should I give up getting married because some religions want it to themselves? I am not civilly unioned to my husband, I am married and religion has nothing to do with that.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:11 PM
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I consider myself a christian and I also consider my self a conservative. I do believe in God, but I do not agree with many of the positions of the church and I do not go to church anymore. My faith in god hasn't gone away but my faith in my church has. I believe gays should have the right to marry, and I also believe a woman should have the right to choose but with limitations. That's opinion and many many others I know who also consider themselves conservatives and christians. I want the government out of my business as much as possible.
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  #20  
Old 08-16-2012, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenmagick View Post
This is kind of the point of legalizing gay marriage....government deciding that ANY two consenting adults can get married and the perks there of. Therefore they are NOT deciding who, how, and why. There are PLENTY of people who just want a legal marriage with no ceremony, tradition, venue, etc attached so I dont see how government can be completely out of it. Take of the restriction of two men or two women NOT being able to marry, then let the individual intstitutions do what they want (like the already do).
You think the legalities of marriage ends with gay marriage?

A venue doesn't nessecarily mean a ceremony, tradition, etc. It would be easy to get government out of the business of marriage. There are churches, weddig chapels, etc. there can be venues where you just go in ad sign your marriage contract without ceremony, tradition, etc. go there, sign your contract and file it with the government rather than having to go to the government for your license (their permission) to marry and then have your ceremony (or not).

Get the contract from whatever venue supports your marriage and then file it with the government for the legal things just like a name change. Seems easy enough and then there won't be any issues where the majority gets to decide who can and can't marry
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