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  #271  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliTerp07 View Post
Ah, don't go there. You will soon receive PMs explaining why Paul's letters condemn homosexuality, and how if you can't see that you are intentionally avoiding the truth.

I agree with you, but it's only going to open a huge can of worms here that isn't really relevant to this discussion.
I dunno Cali... We are commanded to hold each other to account, so forgive me for caring enough to share. And trust me, I have plenty to atone for and be held account to. People seem to love to point out my faults. LOL But I appreciate it. Really.

Romans 1 is pretty clear. Not sure how one wiggles around that.
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  #272  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:46 PM
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Have you seen the YouTube video by Matthew Vines?
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  #273  
Old 10-09-2012, 06:43 PM
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Yes I have. To me the fatal flaw in his arguement is that homosexual activity is not a sin, when the Bible, as he admits, is quite clear. I do not argue the ideas that gay people truly love each other and want what straight couples want. But the fact remains that the Bible is clear.

One can wiggle around it with heart tugging speeches.... Mankind has a knack for making excuses for sinful behavior. But either the Bible is 100% true, or none of it is. I believe the former. Ill never force anyone to agree, but I will also always vote my conscience.
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  #274  
Old 10-09-2012, 06:46 PM
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It's not clear. That wasn't his only argument. He carefully read and interpreted the scripture as it was originally written. Loving homosexual relationships are not condemned in New Testament. He explains why.
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  #275  
Old 10-09-2012, 06:48 PM
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Yes I have. To me the fatal flaw in his arguement is that homosexual activity is not a sin, when the Bible, as he admits, is quite clear. I do not argue the ideas that gay people truly love each other and want what straight couples want. But the fact remains that the Bible is clear.

One can wiggle around it with heart tugging speeches.... Mankind has a knack for making excuses for sinful behavior. But either the Bible is 100% true, or none of it is. I believe the former. Ill never force anyone to agree, but I will also always vote my conscience.
Well gosh I hope you don’t shave, don’t have any tattoos, don’t touch your wife or allow her around your food while she’s menstruating, don’t wear any clothes of mixed threads.... You know... The other stuff the bible is very clear on.
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  #276  
Old 10-09-2012, 06:53 PM
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Yes I have. To me the fatal flaw in his arguement is that homosexual activity is not a sin, when the Bible, as he admits, is quite clear. I do not argue the ideas that gay people truly love each other and want what straight couples want. But the fact remains that the Bible is clear.

One can wiggle around it with heart tugging speeches.... Mankind has a knack for making excuses for sinful behavior. But either the Bible is 100% true, or none of it is. I believe the former. Ill never force anyone to agree, but I will also always vote my conscience.
So, ok, some people believe that due to Jesus's sacrifice, only those commandments in the new testament count. (I believe Spark mentioned this as some point. So i'll leave most of these, alone


Now, I have done quite some research on this issue.. all those years in catholic school did kind of teach me to know my way around a bible lol and Strictly speaking, the New Testament says nothing at all about homosexuality SPECIFICALLY, I'll explain more of that later.
In the FEW times it is mentioned, it would seem that it is said to be bad because it is tagged along with adultery, prostitution and adultery. Not really bad in itself.

At most, there are only three passages in the entire New Testament that refer to what we today would call homosexual activity. None of the four gospels mentions the subject. This means that, so far as we know, Jesus never spoke about homosexuality, and we simply have no way of determining what his attitude toward it might have been.

1 Corinthians 6:9–10 says that certain types of people “will not inherit the kingdom of God.” The list of such people begins with fornicators, idolaters, and adulterers, and it ends with thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, and robbers. Near the middle—between adulterers and thieves—are the two Greek words translated in the New Revised Standard Version as “male prostitutes” (that is, homosexual male prostitutes) and “sodomites.” But no special emphasis is placed on these people; they are simply listed along with the others.

Ok, so... why the focus on homosexuals? I mean, Corinthians does put them in the same bucket as fornicators, adulterers etc..

and speaking of adulterers, in both old and new testament it would seem the bible is pretty clear about one BIG issue.

Divorce. The Bible is very clear on this one: No divorcing. You can't do it. Because when you marry someone, according to Mark 10:8, you "are no longer two, but one flesh." And, Mark 10:9 reads, "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

Mark gets even more hardcore about it a few verses later, in Mark 10:11-12, "And He said to them, 'Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.'"

ok, so, now committing adultery, wouldn't that NOW put the newly divorced woman in the SAME bucket as the homosexuals?

..why do people cherry pick that homosexuals don't deserve to marry and are a sin.
..but that divorced women can remarry and aren't adulterous?

HOW COME ANYONE WHO HAS SEX WITH SOMEONE THEY AREN'T MARRIED TO GETTING THE SAME KIND OF TREATMENT?
..that isn't the bible IMO or it's teachings. That's personal. It's cherry picking. It's a lot more difficult to say all adultery is wrong because hey, sex is fun.. and not waiting til marriage is normal these days.
then it is to point at gay people and condemn.

The New Testament really does not provide any direct guidance for understanding and making judgments about homosexuality in the modern world.

To the extent that it does talk about homosexuality, the New Testament appears to be talking about only certain types of homosexuality, and it speaks on the basis of assumptions about homosexuality that are now regarded as highly dubious. Perhaps, then, we could paraphrase what the New Testament says about homosexuality as follows: If homosexuality is exploitive, then it is wrong; if homosexuality is rooted in idolatry, then it is wrong; if homosexuality represents a denial of one’s own true nature, then it is wrong; if homosexuality is an expression of insatiable lust, then it is wrong. But we could say exactly the same thing about heterosexuality, couldn’t we?

In my eyes, none of these things really say that god things homosexuality in itself is a bad thing.
now, the bible in itself is really about how you read it

So.. you say the bible is either all true or none of it is.. so this begs the questions, when will we stop allowing those who are divorced to marry? non-virgins? How many of those who SCORN homosexuality because of the bible are on their 2nd marriage? had sex before marriage? etc.. They are all covered under adultery.. why do divorced people get a free pass?

..and those preaching this kind of "WRONG IS WRONG THE BIBLE SAYS I AM JUST DOING WHAT GOD WANTS!" philosophy and want to be held accountable.. did you have sex before marriage? were you married before?.. if so, why aren't you as passionate about your own sins? Why did you get married again? I mean, it is adultery after all. What ever happened to not pointing fingers unless your hands are clean

or better yet, what ever happened to loving thy neighbor.
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Last edited by Fran101; 10-09-2012 at 07:11 PM.
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  #277  
Old 10-09-2012, 06:57 PM
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Fran, would it be homosexual or adulterous of me to say that I love you? :P
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  #278  
Old 10-09-2012, 07:01 PM
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Fran, would it be homosexual or adulterous of me to say that I love you? :P
Both and I'd love it either way LOL nothing I love more than some adultery and homosexuality. Except perhaps separation of church and state, but seeing that it no longer exists basically.. because according to Mr.Romney
“We’re a nation that believes that we’re all children of the same God”
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  #279  
Old 10-09-2012, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliTerp07 View Post
This.

I am strong in my faith, but I would never vote church principles into law. Faith and your beliefs are a choice, not something that can or should be forced on others. I am so beyond frustrated when Christians (or those of any other faith, but it seems to be us Christians lately...) try to legislate their version of morality. Lead by example, not by force.
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  #280  
Old 10-09-2012, 07:08 PM
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why do divorced people get a free pass?
I'll pick this, but is an answer to all the other "what about.... what if...." stuff.

ALL sin is equally bad. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. Because He loves us, God comitted the single most loving act in the history of the universe. He took our place. He gave us an out. IF WE ACCEPT IT and repent of our sin.

Tanya is my 2nd wife. :O I fully admit that I made a mistake and married a person who I should not have. I commited a sin, but because of God's grace i'm forgiven. That is not spiking the ball or in any way mean I think "well, I cna do whatever I want, God has my back". I still strive to live my life as best I can, but I will always fall down from time to time.

The difference is I don't make excuses for my sin, I confess the sin and ask my Savior to forgive me. Just like He promised He would.

Is it a shame that many churches seem to elevate homosexual sin above others? Yes. That does not give it a pass. Sin is sin.
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