Smooth Collies bred for work?

[Romy]

Originally Posted by Saeleofu

Logan's breeder does show, but she herds with them too. Most, if not all, of her dogs have herding instinct (I haven't checked each one, but I don't remember see any that didn't). Logan has his HIC and I am DYING to get him into herding trials, I just don't have the money for training right now. Logan's sire has his PT and is a Grand Champion in the conformation ring. Just because a dog does conformation doesn't mean they can't work. You can work and look pretty while doing it

Logan's sire is straight out of Shadaglen collies, which are a working collie kennel. Bonnie has herds of sheep, and her dogs work them. She didn't get the sheep as a "hobby" for her dogs, she's always had both and the two have coexisted together forever. She was also heavily into tracking with her dogs, and hosted a lot of tracking trials at her place. That's how Logan's breeder got into collies, as initially she was looking for a good SAR prospect and ended up with Logan's uncle.

Sadly, she just bred her last litter. She's getting a lot older and all that comes with it.

[Saeleofu]

Sadly, she just bred her last litter. She's getting a lot older and all that comes with it.

Awww, that's sad. Shadaglen was one of the breeders Mel recommended if Logan didn't suit me. I've also sent other people to check for dogs there when other breeders don't have any available. If Loki is any indication of what her dogs are like, she has some FANTASTIC dogs.

[ihartgonzo]

http://www.foggybaycollies.com/Performance-Stars.html

This breeder, in the bay area, ALWAYS has her dogs in herding classes & trials around here. There's also a great breeder close to me who has a farm so her dogs work daily. Both breeders have CH and herding and sport titles on their dogs! That's the ideal. I wish Border Collies could be as balanced as Collies, in maintaining good confo as well as working ability. Instead, there are breeders with watered down show dogs and breeders with working dogs who refuse to show in any way. So I get your statement about how it's sad to think that someday you might be asking if there are any working BC breeders anymore. Very sad.

Collies have been maintained remarkably well, as a breed! It's AMAZING how identical the show Collies of today look to foundation dogs from 100 years ago. Identical. Their friendly, eager to please, farm dog personality has also been maintained. It's a great breed with a lot of wonderful breeders preserving it. I definitely want a Collie. I've never met a bad one.

[BlackPuppy]

Originally Posted by Red Chrome

I see a lot of working farm Collies around here. Smooth and Rough.

Its not conformation that ruined dogs, its breeders.

If you look hard enough, you will find them. And sometimes a conformation dog can herd. I have a Malinois who is a natural herder. I just wish I had some sheep for her.

[Romy]

Originally Posted by BlackPuppy

If you look hard enough, you will find them. And sometimes a conformation dog can herd. I have a Malinois who is a natural herder. I just wish I had some sheep for her.

Logan's sire, straight out of the Shadaglen working kennel, won Best in Specialty finishing his grand championship and winning an award of merit from the CCA all at once. Collies that came from those lines tend to have really great movement, and if the judge happens to be a movement person they'll forgive a head fault or two in favor of a very well put together dog.

People were flabbergasted. lol. He's a super nice dog with CHs in his pedigree, but nobody expected a conformation specialty winner. lol. His breeder was soooo excited and proud.

[Saeleofu]

Originally Posted by Romy

Collies that came from those lines tend to have really great movement, and if the judge happens to be a movement person they'll forgive a head fault or two in favor of a very well put together dog.

It's been a while since I saw Loki in motion, but I could watch Logan trot all day. I've only done one conformation show with him so far (3 or 4 more coming in November though!), but the judge was absolutely smitten with him. He's also oozing charisma, so that doesn't hurt either

[Spiritwind]

Originally Posted by lizzybeth727

Also I think collies are still commonly used as working farm dogs in Europe. European collies look very different, IMO, from American collies, it'd be interesting to see how their temperaments match up.

not sure I totally agree with this. Well the part about commonly used as working farm dogs. (they absolutely look much different, especially the roughs) I talk to a lot of Collie people from Europe. I would say more people in North America work their collies, than in Europe. However, in Europe Smooths are worked FAR more than Roughs. The roughs over there, most could hardly trot across a yard, much less do any real work. Smooths are much more common in North America though, there are some places in Europe were smooths are very rare with only a handful of litters registered a year.

I just purchased a 4 month old rough tri collie girl, whose pedigree is almost all Deep River bred. Her dam is getting ready to start agility training, and her mother (my pups grandmother) has several herding titles and a couple other working titles..

[Kilter]

The conformation breeders aren't always to blame though. With borders, there's a lot of stock dog breeders who do not health test at all, have dogs with questionable temperaments and poor conformation. Hip displasia isn't as rare as they'd like people to think either, a friend said there were a few dogs running in a trial she watched that bunnyhopped etc. so you have to wonder.

I would not be able to contact any local stock dog breeders and ask them about stud dogs, health clearances and would likely get shot if I asked to look at the dog's conformation. So it becomes a choice of conformation dog with health, or working dog with no clue what's there....

There are more dogs in the states at least, but I chose conformation and health over herding ability and who knows...

[Aleron]

Most breeds end up being show/performance/pet bred at least in part because there is no longer a need for them in actual working situations. Or not enough to maintain a healthy gene pool of working only dogs. As a breed Smooth/Rough Collies were developed over a century ago as primarily show and companion dogs. And they tend to make pretty outstanding companion dogs. There's nothing wrong with there not being "working bred" Collies the way there are BCs or Aussies. It is what it is. If you can't find what you are looking for in the breed, there's lots of other breeds out there.

In modern times, some breeders have taken the show aspect to an extreme and some have aimed to maintain dogs who had good type, structure and ability. I'm not sure there are stil what people call "farm collies" which are registered with AKC from pure Collie lines. There were in the 80s and maybe into the 90s but I've not seen or heard on one since. Every one I had seen was Rough but nowhere near as hairy as a show bred Rough. More like a working Aussie. Looking at historical pictures, show Collies certainly have changed a great deal in the past 100 years, like many breeds have. What I seen in he ring here has changed since I had my Collie in the 90s. Much more hair on the Roughs for sure!

Just like any breed, a lot depends on where you look and what you personally want in a dog.

[cliffdog]

Thanks for all the information, folks! Sorry I kind of forgot about this thread. But I appreciate the responses nonetheless. Lots to think about.