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  #21  
Old 07-22-2012, 04:47 AM
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StephyMei1112 StephyMei1112 is offline
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Absolutely not. Katalin is all mine muahahahaha.

I believe in the companion contract it just says should anything not work out that the breeder will be responsible for re-homing her and will bear the expense of doing so etc. That's it.

We're 4 people at home but I'm the ONLY one that walks her, feeds her, grooms her etc. She's bonded with my parents OK, my brother not that much. I guess you could say I co-own her with a very close friend of mine whom she is extremely bonded with - but it's not legal at all. Her vet bills, papers etc - are all under my name solely.

I guess I would co-own a show/breeding dog. Especially if I wasn't at a good financial vantage point to take care of travel, show grooming, extensive vet expenses etc and the co-owners were fair about it - it might relieve some of the pressure in that sense. But otherwise I would prefer having a dog just be mine legally =) - no hassle or fights or conflict of interest with others!
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  #22  
Old 07-22-2012, 06:57 AM
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Um yeah Mira's is basically I can't breed her without a thumbs-up from the breeder, I can veto breeding plans by the breeder if I don't like them/am not comfortable with the plans made. Neither of us would agree to breed unless relevant health testing and show records where in place so that's a moot point and didn't need to be spelled out.

I also can't spay Mira without notifying the breeder, unless it's an emergency situation in which case whoever has Mira is legally free to do whatever it takes in HER best interest...and by that we mean her live and quality of life comes first.

Health testing -- I actually can't remember if that's a contractual requirement. I'd do at least hips anyway for sport and so their breeding program has the info. Heck Kim & Webby have OFA numbers. She'll get her CERF and patella tests done the next time I have a chance.

Showing -- No showing is mandated in the contract. I was already planning on competing with her in various formats and the only thing that would have prevented me is if she grew up to be truly unsuitable in some way (in which case she shouldn't be bred anyhow) or if something horrible happened to me so I couldn't show, in which case we'd probably discuss sending her up to her breeders' for a bit to be evaluated on birds and in the show ring.

There are various other things and I honestly haven't looked at it in the a while but that's the gist of the show/coown aspect of it. The rest was more or less from the pet puppy section...don't drive with your dog in the open bed of a pick-up...if I can't keep her at any time for any reason just call and they will take her back at a moment's notice...that sort of thing.
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  #23  
Old 07-22-2012, 07:28 AM
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Technically, Enda is mine, her reproductive organs are her breeders. Like this V

Quote:
Originally Posted by YodelDogs View Post
I am a breeder and I co-own any dog that leaves here intact. (I currently only co-own with 4 people since they are the only people I have trusted to do right with an intact animal.) I am very easy to co-own with. The dog is theirs and I don't interfere. The only thing I am firm about is that I have a say in whether or not the dog is bred and if so, to whom. I have had very good relationships with my co-owners and we stay in touch.
On paper she's only co-owned with her breeder with the Canadian club. But her breeder still has the final say on when, and to whom she's bred if I want to. I like this kind of co-own best, because I'm not being forced into anything, I'm not being forced to show her, work her, or even breed her. If I want to spay her that's fine, if I want to keep showing her that's fine, if I want to get her into other sports (I am) that's fine. I just can't breed her till, she has a show Ch (which she has), and she's health tested (which by the contract she is, although I would still get a more thorough heart check if I did decide to breed her).

I myself, I would never co-own a dog if I was forced to show them, so often or to a certain point, keep them intact and breed them, if I feel it's in the dogs best interest to be fixed I want it to happen on my terms, and if I feel the dog could/should be bred I want it to happen on my time when I have the time and space and I feel the dog who's living with is physically/mentally ready (Enda is SO not ready! I couldn't image having someone make me breed her now just because she's two and has been health tested!).

And to the above, I just mention the breeding terms part because that was something I read in a Pem breeders contract. They demanded that if you got an intact prospect from them, it was to be shown and title before a certain point, and that they were to be bred right after health testing was completed. Oh! and to top that off, they also demanded the bitch was to be returned to them for the breeding, and whelping! NO WAY! I mean, I could see it if say the owner didn't have the space or time, but not with me, I couldn't do that to my dogs personally, they whelp in MY house, or they don't have puppies at all!
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  #24  
Old 07-22-2012, 07:46 AM
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Nope, I own Sako outright. I would do a co-own with his breeder now that I've gotten to know her, but was leery of it when first I got him. There are only a handful of people I'd do co-owns with, I've heard plenty of horror stories that have made me paranoid about it!
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  #25  
Old 07-22-2012, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai View Post
Heck Kim & Webby have OFA numbers. She'll get her CERF and patella tests done the next time I have a chance.
What breed do you have them listed as? (Asks the OFA nerd...)
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  #26  
Old 07-22-2012, 08:19 AM
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Nevermind, I think I found them in hybrid!
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  #27  
Old 07-22-2012, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teal View Post
[b]

Everything from having the dog reclaimed for being too "high quality" and the breeder wanted it at their kennel, to having a dog bred against the owner's recommendations due to the dog's health and having the dog die in whelp
Well unless the contract states the dog can be "reclaimed", I think the owner would generally have to hand them over and could refuse to. However, if you send your co-owned dog away with their co-owner and the co-owner decides they want to keep the dog it could be very hard to get the dog back.

I have co-owned quite a few dogs over the years. One ended up with the co-owner/breeder wanting him back pretty much for the reason you stated - they felt he was too good of a dog for a a newbie to the breed and didn't feel I was showing him enough. I didn't give him back though, we had no contract and just a verbal agreement that if she wanted to breed to him she could. She was mad but there really wasn't much she could do. My other co-owns have gone well enough, other than really regretting agreeing to litter back terms with one.
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  #28  
Old 07-22-2012, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringerLover View Post
What breed do you have them listed as? (Asks the OFA nerd...)
Their certs say "Hybrid"
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  #29  
Old 07-22-2012, 10:16 AM
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Payton is co-owned. Georgie will probably be (her papers aren't sent in yet.) At some point Pepper will either be signed over to me or I will be added on as co-owner (probably the latter.)

Honestly we don't have a co-own contract, but all three dogs are with Auggie's breeder. It would probably be smarter to have a contract but it was one of those "we've been friends for ages" kind of things. Besides, we don't have concrete plans for any of the dogs, so it's not even like we have a verbal contract... just "in case" type things. When it came time to send in Payton's papers, I told her it was up to her if she wanted to sign on or not, because he has technically gone oversize, so if she doesn't have any interest in him as potential breeding stock, it's no big deal to me. I didn't buy the dog to breed him though we knew there was a possibility depending on how he turned out, so I wasn't going to cry if she thought it best to chop his balls off hahaha. She went ahead and still signed on as co-owner. Good news for Payton's balls.


I don't really worry too much about it. Even if she suddenly went nutso and decided she wanted to "steal" Payton because her name is on as co-owner, I honestly can't see how it would ever get through a court. I've heard horror stories too, but I've also heard far more stories of breeders and rescues having issues despite their contracts with dog owners... possession being 9/10ths of the law and all that... so it's not something I panic over.
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  #30  
Old 07-22-2012, 10:45 AM
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I have very mixed feelings about co-owns. I have seen some where, for example, the buyer pays full price, must show the dog, but has no breeding rights, and I would never sign something like that. Why? Because it only benefits the breeder, not the owner. I mean, really, I pay $1500 for the dog, MUST show it on my dime, but you get exclusive breeding rights? That just doesn't work for me, maybe I'm too old school. I wouldn't do any kind of co-own stipulating that I must show/compete or have no breeding rights whatsoever.

That said, I have seen co-owns that are advantageous to both parties, and to those I say rock on. To me, that's what a co-own should be. Something that aids both parties, not something that lets the breeder maintain full control over the dog while somebody else foots the bill. I know of a co-own where one party pays for health testing, and the other pays for stud fee for breeding. I think that's really cool. That to me is about pooling your resources to ensure the best for the dog and any litters, and therefore, the breed. And that's what I, personally, think a co-own should be.

But I dunno, contracts over a page long make me break out into hives anyway.
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