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View Poll Results: How do you feel about gun control?
My home has guns for safety or sport 26 54.17%
I don't have one, but feel it's a right 6 12.50%
I might have one if I needed it 2 4.17%
I wouldn't have one personally, but it's a right 4 8.33%
I don't want a gun and only police need them 4 8.33%
There should be gun control across the board 3 6.25%
When deer and bears can shoot back... 0 0%
Ted Nugent is out of his%#@&% mind! 1 2.08%
Tacos and Margaritas 2 4.17%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old 07-21-2012, 02:10 PM
Kaydee
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I think too that law enforcement should be able to have anonymous tip lines and watch lists for their communities. Maybe they could somehow keep tabs on the total wackos. If they know someone has bought X number of weapons legally and they have reports of the person out at midnight shouting at the lawn gnomes, maybe they can get social services to intervene before there's a problem?

The problem even then is the backlog in mental health services. The clinics have months long waiting lists. So if someone is on meds to keep the voices away and they get dropped from one program, it might be months without medication before they're processed into another agency.
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  #82  
Old 07-21-2012, 02:36 PM
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I don't disagree with ect if it's used correctly, but it was really abused horrifically for a long time (and may still be in some places).

I don't agree with mandatory institutionalization either. Most people with mental illnesses aren't dangerous, and the current treatments and medications can have some really nasty side effects for some people. I feel that in most cases, those people should have the right to choose whether they'd rather live with the side effects or the illness, because there aren't a lot of good options for them right now.

It's really sad. I wish things were different. I wish there was a way to discern more readily who is and isn't dangerous. I wish there were resources to support all the people who need it. I wish there were more effective treatments and cures for these ailments. Sadly none of that is true right now.
There are many Ill people who are violent though. Jails will not keep them because it's hard to prosecute and we have no where to send them. You discharge and next day violence again. And then you have those that are just a ticking time bomb. Drugs should not be a choice for those who are a true danger to others- and don't be fooled there are plenty out there. The hospitals are a revolving door and people come in sicker and sicker each time and that includes physically.

We were supposed to open a mental health court here because it was such an issue. Never happened. What could they do with them anyway? Found out yesterday oh second largest outpatient provider stopped taking private insurance because they have to many people coming in. Those that do take it- the medical mutuals, Aetna etc are three months out.

And in our cruddy town we work in anyone can buy a gun on the street. No wait! But why get a gun when you can stab someone just as easy.
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  #83  
Old 07-21-2012, 04:27 PM
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Romy Romy is offline
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The problem isn't that it's harder to institutionalize people now. It's that there aren't any institutions or even outpatient clinics to treat them. And the percentage of violent people with mental illnesses doesn't outweigh the percentage of non violent people who have a right to not spent life imprisoned in an institution if they don't want that. That's like looking at any other group of people and deciding that since X percentage is dangerous we should lock them all up as a precaution. We don't have the right to subjugate an entire demographic of people because some of them are dangerous.

A lot of prisons are hiring their own psychiatrists and incorporating psychiatric care units into the prison system for offenders with mental illness. The goal is to treat, rehabilitate and get them to a point where they won't end back up in prison.

The problem with them having access to legal firearms isn't that the firearms sales aren't regulated enough. They'll have firearm access no matter how much you ban them. The violent offenders, plenty of them also get their hands on illegal drugs. Those same drug dealers also deal in illegal weapons so it's not even like they have to find a different source.

My dad was a psychiatric security attendant in the state criminally insane ward for almost 30 years, so I'm well acquainted with the shortfalls in care people are given access to. That itself, is criminal.
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  #84  
Old 07-21-2012, 04:35 PM
Pops2 Pops2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kaydee View Post
I think too that law enforcement should be able to have anonymous tip lines and watch lists for their communities. Maybe they could somehow keep tabs on the total wackos. If they know someone has bought X number of weapons legally and they have reports of the person out at midnight shouting at the lawn gnomes, maybe they can get social services to intervene before there's a problem?

The problem even then is the backlog in mental health services. The clinics have months long waiting lists. So if someone is on meds to keep the voices away and they get dropped from one program, it might be months without medication before they're processed into another agency.
shooting lawn gnomes at midnight is a time tested means of keeping 2 legged vermin off rural properties, especially for single ladies whose neighbors may not be especially pleasant types. they don't tell their neighbors because then it might not work, but as long as most people think they're nutty & armed everyone is as polite as they are.
i'd also like to point out that anonymous tips are a tool for screwing w/ people. many people have had to deal w/ CPS w/o cause because of anonymous tips from a-hole neighbors. however I am all in favor of non anonymous tips & prosecution for false reports.
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  #85  
Old 07-21-2012, 04:38 PM
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shooting lawn gnomes at midnight is a time tested means of keeping 2 legged vermin off rural properties, especially for single ladies whose neighbors may not be especially pleasant types. they don't tell their neighbors because then it might not work, but as long as most people think they're nutty & armed everyone is as polite as they are.
i'd also like to point out that anonymous tips are a tool for screwing w/ people. many people have had to deal w/ CPS w/o cause because of anonymous tips from a-hole neighbors. however I am all in favor of non anonymous tips & prosecution for false reports.
This. 1000X.

It's not that difficult to differentiate between a mistaken impression and a malicious report.
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  #86  
Old 07-21-2012, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Romy View Post
The problem isn't that it's harder to institutionalize people now. It's that there aren't any institutions or even outpatient clinics to treat them. And the percentage of violent people with mental illnesses doesn't outweigh the percentage of non violent people who have a right to not spent life imprisoned in an institution if they don't want that. That's like looking at any other group of people and deciding that since X percentage is dangerous we should lock them all up as a precaution. We don't have the right to subjugate an entire demographic of people because some of them are dangerous.

A lot of prisons are hiring their own psychiatrists and incorporating psychiatric care units into the prison system for offenders with mental illness. The goal is to treat, rehabilitate and get them to a point where they won't end back up in prison.

The problem with them having access to legal firearms isn't that the firearms sales aren't regulated enough. They'll have firearm access no matter how much you ban them. The violent offenders, plenty of them also get their hands on illegal drugs. Those same drug dealers also deal in illegal weapons so it's not even like they have to find a different source.

My dad was a psychiatric security attendant in the state criminally insane ward for almost 30 years, so I'm well acquainted with the shortfalls in care people are given access to. That itself, is criminal.
Well have to disagree on that. We know people are violent and have nowhere to put them. It's well known prison populations have more mentally ill. Here are prisons have to have psych units but if they become actively suicidal they still come to us. They are just a catch all for anyone taking any psych med.

I see this violence almost daily. And some cases lead to this. The people that deal with them know. I am not saying lock away every schizophrenic. Most do fine on meds. You get an idea who's gonna go off and Sometimes they do it randomly. But we know. The ones that kill animals. Other things you don't even want to hear about.
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  #87  
Old 07-22-2012, 12:56 AM
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I see this violence almost daily. And some cases lead to this. The people that deal with them know. I am not saying lock away every schizophrenic. Most do fine on meds. You get an idea who's gonna go off and Sometimes they do it randomly. But we know. The ones that kill animals. Other things you don't even want to hear about.
Believe me, I've probably heard about it, and it's not stuff I want to post on a forum.

I've also spent a lot of time working with people with mental illness who are gentle and kind, but very confused and scared and don't respond well to current treatments. Many of them were horribly abused in institutions and have every right to live their lives away from that kind of environment.
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