Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dog Training Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-15-2012, 09:57 PM
Laurelin's Avatar
Laurelin Laurelin is offline
I'm All Ears
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 29,130
Default Question 1. Do you use verbal corrections

Okay I have two questions based on conversations on another forum.

1. Do you use verbal corrections or a no reward marker. Why? Why not?

I have realized I don't in a 'training situation' but in every day life I do and Mia seems to pick up on what it means. 'Eh eh' means stop what you're doing. Example, I told Mia to stay while I threw the ball and she broke the stay. an 'eh eh' and she stopped dead in her tracks and waited for the release.

I don't realize I'm doing it all so much but I do give a lot of both positive and negative feedback to her in particular. Summer not so much because she's perfect.

I guess in a purely positive method for the previous situation I would have instead told Mia to down/stay?
__________________
Mia CGC
Summer TG2 TBAD
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-15-2012, 10:16 PM
Linds's Avatar
Linds Linds is offline
Twin 2
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 6,691
Default

Yes and no. During real life anything goes pretty much. I've given rather hard collar corrections, yelled at and picked up by the scruff Traveler in real world situations. During training I draw the line at a none reward marking and sometimes a ear flick for attention getting.

But yeah, to use your example when Traveler breaks a stay I will go "HEY! Get back!" more times than not

I've been trying really hard to cut back on non-reward marking with Traveler. I think I use it too much.

With Didgie so far I've only used a NRM for things I think she really does know. But if I have to use it more than twice in a session for one cue I stop and back track.

And so far the only really correction she's got is some yelling "DIDGIE! DON"T TOUCH THAT!!" or scruffed and thrown into the wall for hanging off my leg/arm. Ok, not really, but scruffed and tossed did happen. But that's not verbal
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-15-2012, 10:26 PM
sassafras's Avatar
sassafras sassafras is offline
such sights to show you
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 5,593
Default

Yup, I do. Once they learn what it means, it's a handy shorthand. I especially use it when we're mushing since it's a real PITA to, for example, have to stop and turn around if they turn the wrong way. Much nicer to interrupt a wrong turn with EH EH, [I SAID] GEE!

I also use it around the house a lot for manners, leave it, stuff like that. I don't really intentionally train it, but like you I just use it so much and follow up with practicing whatever different thing I want them to do instead that they seem to just pick it up.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-15-2012, 10:28 PM
houlahoops's Avatar
houlahoops houlahoops is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 723
Default

I'm not actually sure what a no-reward marker is.

I do use a verbal correction during training, but usually it's just a spoken "no, sir" to let the dog know that he's thinking in the wrong direction. In real life, I do use a lot more correction than I would in a controlled setting.

I have used physical corrections in charged situations, the worst of it being a scruff or a solid leash pop. I also suck at training "quiet" and often end up in shouting matches with one dog or all of them as they roar around the house and bump into things.
__________________
Emmy
"Well, don't let me be the moldy cheese in your refrigerator of hope." - Justin McKee

http://ejfoden.wix.com/efinkart
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-15-2012, 10:45 PM
CharlieDog's Avatar
CharlieDog CharlieDog is offline
Rude and Not Ginger
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 9,093
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by houlahoops View Post
I'm not actually sure what a no-reward marker is.

I do use a verbal correction during training, but usually it's just a spoken "no, sir" to let the dog know that he's thinking in the wrong direction. In real life, I do use a lot more correction than I would in a controlled setting.

I have used physical corrections in charged situations, the worst of it being a scruff or a solid leash pop. I also suck at training "quiet" and often end up in shouting matches with one dog or all of them as they roar around the house and bump into things.
An NRM is basically what you've said. "Nope, that's not it"

I also suck at teaching quiet and have shouting matches with Knox and Ozzy. They're much better at winning than I am but I have thumbs and know how to use both crate latches and can openers so I always win.

I have give both firm verbal and physical corrections. Ozzy and Knox are the two that I have to get physical with. They don't respect my personal bubble very much, and combine that with higher drive, higher threshold for pain and less brains, they can and have hurt me seriously. Knox layed my arm open going after the ball and being careless with me. I layed right back into him. Mostly out of shock and surprise and defense, but I wasn't thinking about positive interaction at that point. I was bleeding everywhere and in pain.

So yes, in answer to your question (also have a ugly scar on my arm from the jerk)
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-15-2012, 11:36 PM
Southpaw's Avatar
Southpaw Southpaw is offline
orange iguanas.
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 6,974
Default

Absolutely. I don't use NRMs in training because... well, it's training. If you don't do it right, you just don't get a reward.

But in every day life, yeah. "Eh eh" and "no". Never actually taught a response to those but she is super respondent to them and instantly stops in her tracks.

I don't mind doing it at all. I like my dogs to get rewarded for doing the right things but I also want it clear to them what isn't allowed as well.
__________________
And if all of it is for naught, well at least I took a shot

Juno 2009 :: Happy 2000 :: Lucy 2006 :: Cajun 2013
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-15-2012, 11:49 PM
Kat09Tails's Avatar
Kat09Tails Kat09Tails is offline
*Now with Snark*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Upper Left hand corner, USA
Posts: 3,336
Default

Yes I use verbal corrections. Yes I probably would have handled the breaking of the down stay differently than you did.

I probably wouldn't have introduced the ball until the phase where I was proofing the command on a 5-10 minute basis.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-16-2012, 01:48 AM
mrose_s's Avatar
mrose_s mrose_s is offline
BusterLove
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: QLD, Australia
Posts: 12,145
Default

I do sometimes. I usually use a sharp "hey" as a conditioned punisher. I've paired it with a collar correction in the past and it usually just snaps her out of it.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-16-2012, 05:01 AM
BostonBanker's Avatar
BostonBanker BostonBanker is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Vermont
Posts: 8,154
Default

NRM, yes, more with Gusto than Meg. Meg couldn't handle them at all for a long time. I can now use them, although she doesn't need it often.

Gusto will get stuck repeating the same behavior over and over, and angry he isn't getting rewarded. "Try again!" usually breaks him out of the pattern.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-16-2012, 05:24 AM
Fran101's Avatar
Fran101 Fran101 is offline
Resident fainting goat
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 12,280
Default

I use a positive interrupter. I learned how to teach it off kikopup and it works VERY well for Romeo and my mom's Bichons (who are very soft dogs).
It isn't a NO/isn't negative, but more of a "hey look at me and stop what you are doing"

We use it almost all the time. To stop them from doing something wrong, stop pulling etc.. and it works MUCH better then yelling/NO! ever did.

BUT big BUT here.. I know this doesn't work for all dogs in my experience. My mom's afghan hound does NOT do well with the positive interrupter. She is a tough independent thinking dog and will push buttons and test her limits/use the positive interrupter to her advantage (aka: do something/pretend to do something she knows is wrong on purpose, wait for the noise, and come wait for her treat for stopping)
especially when she goes into prey drive mode, she needs something stronger..we use the "EH!" or "STOP THAT!" or even a leash pop to snap her out of it when she is really in "the zone".
I hate to use leash corrections and normally NEVER would..but she has a very strong prey drive and when she starts her chase/stalking behavior..it's all over.
She is NOT a typically obedient dog. She does everything she does for her advantage and if you didn't teach her the cue for NO THAT IS NOT AN OPTION STOP IT RIGHT NOW she would certainly just do whatever she wanted.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:44 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site