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  #21  
Old 07-16-2012, 09:32 AM
Kaydee
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Originally Posted by Danefied View Post
I spent a very short time using NRM in a training scenario and quickly dropped them. I have smart dogs and NRMs are redundant to them. They know my body language better than I do and of course they know they didn’t get rewarded. Adding a NRM was completely unnecessary and slowed the whole process down.

No verbal corrections in training. I compare it to a kid solving an algebra equation. You don’t give them the problem until you know they can do each step, but even then, sometimes they get the steps messed up. Instead of “no” that’s not the right answer, you take the kid back to the point where he was successful. Tell him “you were right up until *here*” and have him rework the problem starting from *here*. Same in training.

If you’re doing crate games, SG explains it really well when she says “anytime the dog makes a mistake that’s information he’s giving us.” (Or something like that.) Basically, go back, lower the criteria, and build from there.

In real life I will use a “hey” for serious stuff like about to run me over mid zoomie or thinking about having a snark/fight. But 98% of the time simply saying the dog’s name interrupts the behavior.
I go with the above.
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  #22  
Old 07-16-2012, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danefied View Post
I spent a very short time using NRM in a training scenario and quickly dropped them. I have smart dogs and NRMs are redundant to them. They know my body language better than I do and of course they know they didn’t get rewarded. Adding a NRM was completely unnecessary and slowed the whole process down.

No verbal corrections in training. I compare it to a kid solving an algebra equation. You don’t give them the problem until you know they can do each step, but even then, sometimes they get the steps messed up. Instead of “no” that’s not the right answer, you take the kid back to the point where he was successful. Tell him “you were right up until *here*” and have him rework the problem starting from *here*. Same in training.

If you’re doing crate games, SG explains it really well when she says “anytime the dog makes a mistake that’s information he’s giving us.” (Or something like that.) Basically, go back, lower the criteria, and build from there.

In real life I will use a “hey” for serious stuff like about to run me over mid zoomie or thinking about having a snark/fight. But 98% of the time simply saying the dog’s name interrupts the behavior.


That is not to say that occasionally I don't get riled up myself and speak a little harsher than usual. "Hey!" "Quit!" (never to Chulita....she's way too sensitive) But usually, it's a re-direction to something else if they're doing something I don't like or an interruption and getting them to focus on me...things that have been taught, which.....occasionally need sprucing up because behaviors do regress from time to time. I'd like to be able to say I always maintain my cool, but that is not true. I'm a primate and definitely will get uptight.... or my patience level can be low from time to time, as I'm kind of a nervous nelly.

Yesterday, when on a walk with Jose`, he picked up a piece of poop left there by some unknown dog. I was so grossed out, I forgot to speak politely to him. He would have just dropped it if I told him in a normal speaking voice, as he's been trained this way. But being extra horrified this time, I kind of spoke harshly/nastily, in an extra nervous sounding tone, "DROP IT!!! YUCK!!!!" He did and I dropped a few treats on the ground for him which I carry in my pocket. (wasn't about to hand feed him right after he had poop in his mouth.) Then went home and scrubbed his teeth and gums.
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  #23  
Old 07-16-2012, 10:08 AM
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I'm not sure this is NRM exactly, but I realized today that I have also inadvertently taught Squash that "Sir" means "seriously, I'm really serious." As in:

Me: Squash, sit.
Squash: lalalalala lololololderp OH LOOK SHINY
Me: SIR...
Squash: *attention*
Me: ... sit!
Squash: *sits*
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  #24  
Old 07-16-2012, 11:46 AM
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Not really in training I don't think. I will occassionally if it's something they know well, but even that's not common. I used to use them a lot with Tango during training as she'd throw a hundred different behaviours at me and not focus on what I actually told her. An NRM brought her back to reality. But with these guys they're generally not necessary. And if I'm teaching something new I definitely don't.

But I for sure do in real life scenarios. If I catch them doing something they shouldn't be, it just comes out of my mouth. I've been trying to be better about it though. Sometimes I feel like I'm too quick with verbal corrections, so lately I've been trying to catch myself beforehand to see if I actually need to be telling them anything or not rather than being implusive. When I do verbally correct them it's just an "ah ah", or "hey!", or "stop it/knock it off".
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  #25  
Old 07-16-2012, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieDog View Post
I have give both firm verbal and physical corrections)
Yep.

Verbal corrections are often and useful with Rosey

Usually, a "that's enough!" or "dont even..." will get the message across, though.
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  #26  
Old 07-16-2012, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Me: Squash, sit.
Squash: lalalalala lololololderp OH LOOK SHINY
Me: SIR...
Squash: *attention*
Me: ... sit!
Squash: *sits*
Ahaha I do that with the curs too! A command followed by "sir" is a super duper mega serious suggestion.
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  #27  
Old 07-16-2012, 05:46 PM
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During training, eh, just depends. I might say a quick "nope" or "eh eh" to let her know that isn't what I want, but it is more like just talking....kind of like if I were teaching someone to do something, I'd be giving them feedback on what they were doing, not just standing there with my mouth shut watching them.

In real world situations, definitely. "Hey!", "Uh uh!", "NO!", "Knock it off!" are pretty common. lol Course, in real world situations I'll also give physical corrections if the situation calls for it, so I don't view a verbal correction to be a bad thing.
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  #28  
Old 07-16-2012, 07:04 PM
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I will use a verbal interruptor in an emergency situation, as a means of management... but I don't consider it TRAINING. My dogs are way too smart & understand me too well for NRM to be necessary. Doing that quickly shuts Gonzo down, and makes Fozzie disengaged and stubborn. Not giving them a marker/reward/praise is enough to let them know they didn't do what I wanted. I feel schizophrenic going "yesss good!" "nooo bad!" "yesss good!" "nooo!" "yesss!"

To me, training is teaching commands and making them as reliable, motivating and solid as possible. I'd much rather give my dog an actual command and tell them what to do, rather than what not to do. Unless it's an emergency and my brain just stops and all I can do is scream. Being that I never raise my voice at my dogs, if I do, they stop dead in their tracks and shrivel up.
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  #29  
Old 07-16-2012, 07:08 PM
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I try really, really hard not to when training. It's totally something I have to train myself not to do and, as always, I'm a work in progress. Bailey is really soft and wants so much to please that it's just not necessary or effective. Sometimes when he blows me off I use a firmer tone of voice, but he's so sensitive that I try to avoid even that. It's harder with Grace, since she's going through a puppy/teenager phase (and isn't exactly soft, though she naturally has a biddable, eager to please disposition), but our training is more effective without verbal corrections.

I do use verbal corrections in everyday life (some version of "eh eh" or use of the dog's name). Rarely necessary for Bailey, though sometimes he acts up a bit. Happens more than I want it to for the puppy, even though I try not to do it too much. That girl is always into something.

ETA: I forgot, I do purposely use verbal corrections in one instance with Grace -- to interrupt her when she is humping her brother. It happens super fast (Bailey always moves away pretty quickly, but his subtle corrections aren't enough to extinguish the behavior), and I immediately remove her from the situation after giving the verbal correction. I absolutely want to extinguish the behavior as soon as possible, because it is so rude, and redirection/removal doesn't work fast enough in this case.

Last edited by Bailey08; 07-16-2012 at 07:55 PM.
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  #30  
Old 07-16-2012, 09:16 PM
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I don't like to speak really stern because she spooks so easily but sometimes in frustration you will hear " SOPH, HEY STOONITZ, WHERE ARE YOU???" echoing through the reservation. Of course she drops the chipmunk and comes bounding back.
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