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Old 07-12-2012, 10:13 AM
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Default Papillon questions

So, I have a question ....

Is there different "types" of Papillons, as in different lines and looks, etc?

Because they are definitely a breed still on my "to do" list if you will (lol) but I have a very specific look that I prefer. I know personality comes before looks but I'm not going to lie, if I'm getting a dog from a breeder, I'd want it to be aesthetically pleasing to me.

I don't like really thick coats, or a lot of ear fringe. I also don't like a real tiny face if that makes sense (maybe I like a little longer muzzle too). I guess I am looking for a bit bigger of a Papillon (10-12lbs at least, preferably) - is that even possible when going through a breeder? Any one know of any breeders specifically that may have a bit larger dogs?

I was just looking some up on petfinder, and for example I really like the look of this dog, but not sure I'd ever be able to get something similar through a breeder.



I don't like the amount of fringe on this dog, even though it's gorgeous. I'm pretty sure it would drive me crazy and I'd want to cut it, LOL


And I wouldn't want a thick coat like this, it reminds me of a Pom.


I REALLY like the look of this dog (minus the ears)

And this one:
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:26 AM
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There is quite a bit of variation in papillons. I don't know of anyone specifically breeding larger sizes but usually there will be size variety in any litter. In Misty's last litter the size variation ran from 4lbs to 12 lbs as adults.

Bitches usually tend to have less fringe (ear hangies) than boys. Unless you're buying byb petlines however you probably won't find one completely without fringe.

A proper papillon coat is single. You will find some that look a little pomish but these are not correct coats.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:30 AM
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Here is one breeder I looked at when I was looking at paps: http://www.braylorspapillons.com/dams.htm They seem to have the kinds of dogs you are looking for. Not FLOOFY, decent sizes, competitive in sports

Hope it helps I think finding the right "type" within the breed for paps, isn't so much about lines, more like specific breeders. There isn't a deep separation like in show/sport border collies
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:40 AM
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Since their ears are a key characteristic of the breed I really hope people aren't breeding for lack of "butterfly ears".
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat09Tails View Post
There is quite a bit of variation in papillons. I don't know of anyone specifically breeding larger sizes but usually there will be size variety in any litter. In Misty's last litter the size variation ran from 4lbs to 12 lbs as adults.

Bitches usually tend to have less fringe (ear hangies) than boys. Unless you're buying byb petlines however you probably won't find one completely without fringe.

A proper papillon coat is single. You will find some that look a little pomish but these are not correct coats.
Thanks! So I guess it just depends, and each litter kind of varies? I don't want one completely without fringe, I just don't like it over-done personally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran101 View Post
Here is one breeder I looked at when I was looking at paps: http://www.braylorspapillons.com/dams.htm They seem to have the kinds of dogs you are looking for. Not FLOOFY, decent sizes, competitive in sports

Hope it helps I think finding the right "type" within the breed for paps, isn't so much about lines, more like specific breeders. There isn't a deep separation like in show/sport border collies
Thank you! That breeder looks very much along the lines of what I want. I still am not even 100% on a breed - just exploring right now still... but Papillons have sparked my interested over the last three years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Since their ears are a key characteristic of the breed I really hope people aren't breeding for lack of "butterfly ears".
Oh, I'm not asking for a breeder specifically breeding for lack of butterfly ears. I just didn't know if it was maybe just a matter of different breeders, or individual dogs, etc with HOW long the ears are, or if some trim them, or if it's mostly genetics, etc. It's just not my personal preference to have really long ears. Yorkies are bred often for their long silky coats however I prefer to keep my boy (or any future yorkie) short... it's just a preference.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran101 View Post
Here is one breeder I looked at when I was looking at paps: http://www.braylorspapillons.com/dams.htm They seem to have the kinds of dogs you are looking for. Not FLOOFY, decent sizes, competitive in sports

Hope it helps I think finding the right "type" within the breed for paps, isn't so much about lines, more like specific breeders. There isn't a deep separation like in show/sport border collies
Awww, I really like Ivan


I really want to meet more Papillons. I've only met 3 in my lifetime, and I fell in love with them all. The only thing holding me back is the size... unless, like I said, I could find one in the 10+lb range.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:42 AM
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You won't find someone breeding the 10lb + range on purpose. Most papillons I've met over that weight are an inch or two past the acceptable height limit.
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Old 07-12-2012, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonsMom View Post
Awww, I really like Ivan
Wow I think he's really handsome!

I do agree with you though I wish I could find some on the larger size. But I disagree about the ears! I love the ear fur!
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Old 07-12-2012, 06:31 PM
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Paps vary a LOT between individuals. To give you an idea:

These are half sisters. Different sires but same dam and same 'types' of lines. Their dam was pushing 10 lbs and Summer is 8.1 lbs and Rose is 6 lbs on a heavy day.


roses by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


5 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

There's some minor variations between Swedish dogs and English dogs and American dogs but not so much that if you're not very educated in the breed that you would really be able to pick them out so well.

Summer is 8 lbs and sturdy and just barely within height standards. I love Summer's type a lot, she's my favorite out of my dogs. Her granddam was very similar looking but to be honest neither of them is really a show type dog.

Mia's littermate is tiny and then her half brother is huge. One of her brothers has holy crap ear fringe lol. She actually has quite a bit. And then her littermate almost has none. Just lots of variation and imo hard to predict. Bitches have less coat in general.

Ear fringe is honestly part of the breed since it's what the breed is named after. It's really not hard to groom or a hassle at all. A proper papillon coat isn't going to be much maintenance. MUCH easier than Ada's yorkie coat even though she had shorter hair.

There are a lot of big rescue papillons that might have less coat out there though.
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Last edited by Laurelin; 07-12-2012 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 07-12-2012, 06:39 PM
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I do find in GENERAL the Swedish/Japanese lines have the ridiculously long fringe more often. But Mia's brother Monkey has just as much. Rose is English/American lines and has a ton.

If I hadn't spayed Summer she'd have kept this coat:



What you see on Summer now is actually a spay coat as ridiculous as it is at how short it still is for the breed. Of course she's kind of a fluke and the breeder had no idea as a puppy that she wouldn't grow a coat.

Here is Rose pre-spay



And Beau pre- neuter.



Altering really makes a big difference.
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