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Old 07-10-2012, 03:47 PM
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Default How bad is Iams smat puppy?

We are having some food issues with the Sibes. Orijen and Acana are out! They get extremely sick we added it in slow did not work. One can eat chicken ala veg Fromm just fine the other one pukes it up. The one that pukes up fromm was in the EVET over the weekend due to a reaction to the vaccines and they think Fromm. So now everyone plus the breeder says Iams. He is strictly on boiled chicken and rice now until he gets better then the switch to Iams. I need opinions on this. He can't even handle training treats or cookies at least the ones I tried so far.
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:49 PM
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Ingredients Iams smart puppy pro active health



Chicken, Corn Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Chicken Flavor, Chicken Meal, Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Dried Egg Product, Potassium Chloride, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, Caramel, Choline Chloride, Fructooligosaccharides, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Calcium Carbonate, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine Monohydrochloride, Rosemary Extract.
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:51 PM
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Well... When the choice is a food that may be stellar vs them throwing up all food, you gotta do what you gotta do
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:03 PM
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What kind of cookies/treats have you tried? I'm wondering if there's an ingredient somewhere that is common and is causing him to throw up, or if it's just the Fromm makes his belly gross and he can't handle anything... Is he okay with cookies and treats right now that he's off the Fromm?
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:20 PM
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As somebody who tried 10+ brands and formulas (to try out different protein sources, try out grain free vs. grain inclusive, high protein vs. lower protein content, etc.) for two of my dogs with sensitive digestive systems, if he were mine, I would probably keep looking and trying better quality foods. But that's just me. I have a really hard time feeding something I know isn't all that good. Some dogs really can't handle high quality foods, and I thought we might get to that point with Keira, but eventually I found something (now two things actually) that worked for her that was still of a quality I could happily live with.

So it's really up to you and what you are the most comfortable with. As far as quality goes, no, Iams certainly isn't the best... far from it. But if that's what works for him and you don't want to try to find a better quality food that might agree with him, then there is nothing wrong with that.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:07 PM
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What formulas were they on with Acana and Orijen? 9/10 there IS one singular ingredient causing them issues. It is typically oatmeal, but Acana and Orijen doesn't have oats, I think? In any of their products.

Second, did vet check their gut for obstruction and/or infections? Sibes are terribly when it comes to digestive things. If the vet hasn't checked...DO NOT SWITCH THEIR FOOD YET. The problem will not go away. If they are truly having a blow out, it'll take a month or two of recovery time. If it's an obstruction, well, that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

But, antibiotics, probiotics, and keep them on boiled chicken and rice.

What are ALL the formulas they have been on? It's usually a specific ingredient. Oats, chicken, lamb are the most common along with Potatoes, corn, barley, wheat... But I've seen some pretty spectacular dogs allergic to EVERYTHING before, so, meh. Could be anything.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:13 PM
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I wouldn't do it, there has to be a high quality food they do well on, not all high quality foods are the same. Try a limited ingredient, single protein/single carb type food, preferably ones that are different from the foods they couldn't tolerate.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:18 PM
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Have you considered trying a limited ingredient food? Acana/Orijen have a lot of different stuff in their formulas. Natural Balance makes limited ingredient formulas, as does Cali Natural. If it were me, I would try the Cali Natural limited ingredient formulas (one is venison, one is kangaroo) because I think they are better quality than NB.

Make the switch to whatever you choose, but give it a good month or so to work and do the transition as slowly as possible. If it were me I would be trying a lot more before resorting to IAMS.
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:59 PM
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I was thinking Cal Nat also if it comes to it. Obstructions have been ruled out by xrays but when he went to the regular vet the vet admits it could be some type of virus they are just not sure if it is really the fromm or the vaccines. They re wormed both dogs just in case and for the last vaccine they are going to break that up and not give it all at once. The vet was insistent that Sibes are so sensitive they have to be on Purina something or other and the breeder says Iams so really maybe I will just give him more time until he is off the Flagyl and the Carafate and slowly add the Fromm back in. The acana was chicken flavor they had terrible diarreha when they tried adding that so we did not try the chicken orijen. When they were here I think it is possible they got some of the Goldens red meat Orijen. I'm just panicky that everyone wants to give up and use Iams. Would Fromm be a good choice to stick with if I could wean him back onto it? If I could get him on that I would be scared to switch again. The treats have been out of the diet for like 3 weeks now Zukes so I don't think that was the real problem. When I think back now he did have a 12 hour episode of vomiting around the time of the 9 week vaccines. Now everyone is afraid to give him the rabies shot. Poor little guy has been a trooper through all of this and everyone fell in love with him at the EVET over the weekend. He has such a sweet disposition Denali on the other hand is very rambunctious and wants his way.
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:48 PM
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Why are they on the medications? Is there something going on in addition to the vomiting? Any worms?

I don't mean to come across as too strident, but please, please don't vaccinate anyone whose immune system is then compromised. I truly think that part of my now adult dog's health issues were caused by over-vaccination when he was fighting off parasites (giardia). I know that vets have their schedules that they like to follow, and of course your local laws will have something to say about when rabies has to be given, but some dogs (including mine, even now) have trouble with vaccines.

Maybe look into a homeopathic vet who can give you something to help lessen the side effects of the vaccines. Also, talk to your vet about limiting vaccinations to core vaccines only (distemper, parvo, rabies), spread them out and/or consider titering instead of vaccinating if they've already had two rounds (I did this for my now five month old puppy).

As for food, I do think you can do better than Iams, and I agree that a limited ingredient food may be the way to go, like California Naturals in a unique protein. That said, you have a puppy that can't keep food down so I don't know that I would spend a lot of time experimenting while you're trying to get other issues under control. I looked at the Iams site and they seem to have a "maximum calorie" veterinary food that you may want to ask your vet about if you're worried the little guy isn't absorbing enough nutrients.

In other words, and this is just my opinion and I haven't met your dogs and am not a vet, I think there may be something more going on here than just the food.
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