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  #11  
Old 07-06-2012, 08:17 PM
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"Iíve just had an apostrophe."

"I think you mean an epiphany."

"Lightning just struck my brain!"

(sorry, I just love that movie)
Ha! I just watched that movie a week ago for the first time in forever.
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  #12  
Old 07-06-2012, 10:22 PM
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Boredom can definitely be an issue for many dogs with stays, especially as it often becomes quite predictable i.e. you leave the dog in a stay. Walk 10 steps away. Turn around. Look at the dog for 2 minutes. Return to the dog and reward it for staying in position etc.

When I train stays I make it as unpredictable as possible. I always release to the reward (either to a remote or to me as it's in my hand) - I never reward in position. I could release the dog just after leaving them and have only walked two steps ahead; or as I turn around; or after 10 seconds or 2 minutes etc. My dog looks alert the entire time she is in a stay, almost like she is ready to break any second, because she is always thinking 'is it now? is it now? is it now?' not 'Ho hum, another 2 minutes of this boring crap'. I actually practice releasing in stays until the dog breaks in anticipation of getting the reward, because I want them to learn what happens when they do break before I have released them (NRM/end of game etc).

The issue she has in stays is probably the same problem you have in the ring lining up at the start peg. Be less predictable so the dog can't learn to predict when they will get the reward. I often have my dog line up at heel at the start peg in training, take two steps then release her to the reward. I never want being in the ring to look the same.
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  #13  
Old 07-06-2012, 10:52 PM
Kilter Kilter is offline
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One game you can work with her for impulse control is to have her on a long line or slip leash, whatever's easier. Toss the ball a few feet ahead of her, hold the leash and stay put. Most dogs will of course pull to get to the ball, you want to wait till they stop pulling, then drop the leash. Then make it that they have to check in with you with even an ear before you let go, then start pulling on the leash a bit and have them move back (if you work this gradually they'll know a tight leash doesn't get dropped and back up themselves). Also up the challenge by tossing the ball further, out of sight if that's what she likes....

You can also set up the start line with multiple choices so it's not clear what she is to do first. If she breaks, go to the jump she didn't take and inspect it, pay attention to it and if she comes to you wondering go 'oh there you are, this is what I wanted' and put her away.

With bird work we will set up 2 young dogs on a line and have a bird tossed. If one dog breaks, they don't get to go get the bird. If they both break, nobody gets the bird. Doesn't take them long to clue in and they HATE when the other dog gets the bird. You could work the same with a ball.

As for toys it's a tough one, try different ones but some dogs just don't like toys and it's hard to motivate them towards it. Unless it's a toy with food in it....
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:26 PM
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I was going to reccommend crate games too.. It really helps to make stays black and white to dogs that struggle with them because the door is an actual barrier. What's even cooler is that you can practice running a sequence with your crate at the start line to REALLY make it black and white. Zuma and I have done everything you can imagine with crate games and more just to work on her impulse control in general. I really see a difference when I skip it for a month or two.
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  #15  
Old 07-06-2012, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SaraB View Post
I was going to reccommend crate games too.. It really helps to make stays black and white to dogs that struggle with them because the door is an actual barrier. What's even cooler is that you can practice running a sequence with your crate at the start line to REALLY make it black and white. Zuma and I have done everything you can imagine with crate games and more just to work on her impulse control in general. I really see a difference when I skip it for a month or two.
I LOVE crate games... one more vote for them here. Keeva can't stay if there's a toy involved unless it's in her crate. But in her crate, she can do it, if even just for a bit. The physical place and visual barrier definitely help.
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  #16  
Old 07-07-2012, 10:17 AM
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Well I watched the intro to crate games then had to stop when they said you'd need a full hour for the first part. Hopefully I can get to that after class today.
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  #17  
Old 07-07-2012, 11:29 AM
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Crate Games is tedious in the beginning for sure, but so very worth it. I think Gusto and Mia are a lot alike, and I have have never once "taught" Gusto a stay. You can see his head clicking, thinking "I know this game" whether it is on the start line, the table, or his contacts. He transferred it so easily.
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  #18  
Old 07-07-2012, 11:43 AM
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So far just watching the intro has clarified a lot and I see a couple areas where I haven't been so clear with her. I think it's great to have the trainer introduce the idea of crate games in class but it's hard to go over all the rules in a short amount of time (and keep the new handlers interested).
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  #19  
Old 07-07-2012, 11:48 AM
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One question about the first stages of crate games. I'm assuming when she says we're wanting 5-10 repetitions that we want correct repetitions? The GSD they're using in the video is really pretty calm and I am betting that Mia will be moving a lot more and doing a lot more incorrect behaviors, at least at first.

If the dog is still popping up sometimes after 10 reps of round 1 do you wait and keep doing round 1 till they seem to get it better? Or do you progress and then just keep shutting the door if they make a movement to leave the crate?
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  #20  
Old 07-07-2012, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
One question about the first stages of crate games. I'm assuming when she says we're wanting 5-10 repetitions that we want correct repetitions? The GSD they're using in the video is really pretty calm and I am betting that Mia will be moving a lot more and doing a lot more incorrect behaviors, at least at first.

If the dog is still popping up sometimes after 10 reps of round 1 do you wait and keep doing round 1 till they seem to get it better? Or do you progress and then just keep shutting the door if they make a movement to leave the crate?
I go by the old Bob Bailey rule of at least 80% correct responses at the desired intensity level before moving on. But I don't linger at that 80%...I tend to raise criteria as soon as we get there, even if it's only in a small way. If we are at less than 50-60% correct or if we plateau I try to make it easier somehow.

The more things they do wrong, the more possibilities they eliminate as potential alternatives. Trick is to make it just hard enough that they are offering majority good things (to reward) and a variety of wrong things (to eliminate). Keeps it interesting and moving along.

I hope that actually answers your question lol
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