"Bully Breeds" and Dog Aggression...

[Catsi]

It's the only reason why I probably won't own a stafford again. My own stafford is not DR/DA at all... having said that I have no doubt that she may not instigate a scrap, but she would certainly participate. Her tolerance is very high with dogs she knows, but I have seen other strange dogs pick a fight and her reaction said a lot.

But funnily enough, having my own Chi x being DA made me realise that I would like to not have a DA dog next time. I would like to compete in sports and not have to micromanage every walk lol. Getting a Stafford (as much as I adore them) may just be asking for heart break. Maybe it will be less of an issue later in my life. Right now I just don't particularly want to deal with it again.

[Miakoda]

Originally Posted by Barbara!

You do realize though, it's not "all in how you raise them"?

That, and there's a HUGE difference between "aggressive" (which I'm guessing implies human aggression and generalized aggressions) and "dog aggression". The two are not related, and DA does not predispose a dog to HA.

The reason why I shudder and cringe and turn beet red when someone talks about "it's all in how you raise them", is because it actually serves to just provide "proof" that "pit bulls" are unpredictable and can "turn on you" at any time. Why? Because what other possibility could there in the case of the Mommykins who wuved her itty-bitty-pittie to pieces and kept him in the house eating out of $200 dog bowls other than the dog was just "turned"? Because if one loved their dog enough and took good care of it, it would never have dog aggression (or any other kind of aggression).

I'm in the group that strongly believes genetics plays a much larger role in a dog's life than many others believe. I believe that one can only do so much in terms of environmental impact; a dog is born with a certain base temperament, it matures along the same route, and it can only vary so much with an owner's outside influence upon it.

I've seen some horrid cases of abuse and neglect (pit bulls dragged behind vehicles, doused with gasoline/lighter fluid and set on fire, stabbed, shot, and severely starved and dumped still alive in garbage cans), and yet, despite this treatment and heaven only knows what it endured before this final act of cruelty, the dogs do their best to wag their tails, lick you, and when they are well, they are wonderful happy family members. This right there disproves the "all in how you raise them" as well.

[crazedACD]

Originally Posted by Sweet72947

They also tend to become very neurotic in a kennel situation. There is a pretty female GSD with fluffy hair who boards at work who CONSTANTLY knocks over her water bowl, even the no-spill bowls! You can hear it banging around as she plays with it. She also spreads her food around her kennel instead of eating it, craps in her run, and is generally a real PITA. There's also that annoying rapid-fire barking GSDs tend to do.

There was one GSD that boarded monthly where I worked I'll never forget. That dog was 100%, completely and totally batshit crazy. She had to be kept in a covered kennel, and leash walked outside because she was severely DA and would climb. She also had neurotic patterns in the kennel, bouncing from side to side, especially when dogs went by. She knocked over her food and water. When you put her in the kennel, she would go in straight, and you better have that lead off before she turned around or she would try to nail you. She definitely had some head issues, it never seemed like anybody was 'in there'.
I was talking to the (dedicated but worn down) owner one day..when the dog was 6 months old she was sent for training. She climbed over the trainers' kennels and killed an entire litter of puppies. Now this doesn't speak for the breed but she was just effing insane.

[sillysally]

Originally Posted by crazedACD

There was one GSD that boarded monthly where I worked I'll never forget. That dog was 100%, completely and totally batshit crazy. She had to be kept in a covered kennel, and leash walked outside because she was severely DA and would climb. She also had neurotic patterns in the kennel, bouncing from side to side, especially when dogs went by. She knocked over her food and water. When you put her in the kennel, she would go in straight, and you better have that lead off before she turned around or she would try to nail you. She definitely had some head issues, it never seemed like anybody was 'in there'.
I was talking to the (dedicated but worn down) owner one day..when the dog was 6 months old she was sent for training. She climbed over the trainers' kennels and killed an entire litter of puppies. Now this doesn't speak for the breed but she was just effing insane.

Yikes! It would seriously alarm me if any dog just killed pups like that, much less when the dog was that young.

[Red Chrome]

I find that Judge(GSD) is intolerant of rude dogs. He gets along well with dogs he introduced to properly on his terms. But had no patience at all for rude dogs that want in his space/face.

I do find that dog aggression runs more in the working line GSDs. Also to me...a GSD fight is much worse than a pit bull fight. The GSDs will bite you in the heat of the moment.

[Barbara!]

Chevelle is like that as well. With rude dogs she goes one of two ways: cower or snap. It's mostly snap.

[Aleron]

Originally Posted by Red Chrome

I do find that dog aggression runs more in the working line GSDs. Also to me...a GSD fight is much worse than a pit bull fight. The GSDs will bite you in the heat of the moment.

DA runs in the breed. I've seen a fair share of GSDs with missing or split ears and with scars on their face in the AKC ring. I was warned by most of the GSD show people in this area that GSDs often fight and seriously fight with same sex dogs. I had three GSDs, one German and two from American show lines. All three had varying degrees of DA. The German line girl was same sex aggressive and would violently fight with mature girls who lived in the same house as her. The American line boy was SSA towards pretty much most males. And the American line girl was reactive towards strange dogs.

Originally Posted by crazedACD

There was one GSD that boarded monthly where I worked I'll never forget. That dog was 100%, completely and totally batshit crazy. She had to be kept in a covered kennel, and leash walked outside because she was severely DA and would climb. She also had neurotic patterns in the kennel, bouncing from side to side, especially when dogs went by. She knocked over her food and water. When you put her in the kennel, she would go in straight, and you better have that lead off before she turned around or she would try to nail you. She definitely had some head issues, it never seemed like anybody was 'in there'.
I was talking to the (dedicated but worn down) owner one day..when the dog was 6 months old she was sent for training. She climbed over the trainers' kennels and killed an entire litter of puppies. Now this doesn't speak for the breed but she was just effing insane.

I wonder what went on when she was sent for board and training. So many of those places use extremely harsh training methods and few dogs seem to come back better after they go to them. And I do have to question why a litter of puppies was being kept in the kennel next to strange boarding dogs.

Bitches killing other bitch's puppies is not really "insane", it's not really all that abnormal of a behavior for dogs. It is common enough that it is something people who breed need to be aware of. IME it's probably more of a risk with breeds prone to SSA but it can happen with any dog. I knew a Bichon who killed her housemate's puppies (also a Bichon). These were pretty normal Bichons, not anything really insane about either of them.

[Red Chrome]

I have limited interactions with anything other than the working bred GSDs so was unsure if it ran in the breed. Talking to a lot of Am. Line owners you wouldn't think dog aggression was a problem.

That's odd about same sex aggression. My boy could care less about other dogs after he is introduced properly. He is good with them after that. Males or females. Max,a Czech bitch is good with other females too. She does require a firm hand but is good with them for the most part.

Barbara- Judge doesn't cower, it's on like donkey Kong with him if I let a rude dog get in his face.

[AdrianneIsabel]

My gerbils would kill other gerbils babies but if they matured enough they would accept them into the community. Females tended to be the highest risk. That was a traumatic lesson to learn as a kid.

I don't think gsd were created with the need for dog tolerance in mind, were they?