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  #31  
Old 07-04-2012, 04:37 PM
Kaydee
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Off the track, just clicked past a Cesar episode with Howie Mandel and a monster Chi. Don't know how it turned out, but what a little beast...that's not cute, it's obnoxious
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  #32  
Old 07-04-2012, 05:33 PM
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Nothing really to add to the thread other than I used to be of the "it's how you raise them" mindset. Now I get irritated when I hear people say that. I truly believed any kind of dog aggression or reactivity was simply a training issue. To be honest, I think a lot of that came from watching shows such as Pit Boss or Dog Whisperer, etc, where you see a bunch of pitties out and about together and ohhh they're sooo great with other dogs.

I will admit that I've since become more aware. And to be honest? Nearly every fight or scuffle that occurs at the dog park happens with the bully-types. I tend to leave when one walks in if I happen to be in the larger section, and I know it may seem like I'm being snobby but I don't really care. I've also seen a lot of GSD's with issues in regards to reactivity and snarkiness I guess you'd call it. It's definitely turned me off to the breed, even though I still love them, I am not sure I'd be willing to deal with it if it came up. My uncle's GSD girl was extremely dog reactive from the moment he brought her home, and now he has worked with her to the point where she's okay in public, etc, and she lives fine with my other uncles Lab (but he's super laid back) but she's definitely somewhat selective. She's more fearful though than anything, it's not really her being "dominant". The first time she came to the dog park, two JRT's charged her and practically ambushed her and she was backing up as far as could, teeth baring, hair standing up (rightfully so). He was bringing her up to the dog park for a while though and she ended up doing really well... she tends to ignore other dogs there though and prefers to play ball with her 'dad' and always keep her eye on him, which is a trait I DO love about Shepherds from what I've met. Their loyalty is incredible. I'm cautious around her and Jackson... her play style is very rough and nippy, but luckily, she seems to know now that Jackson won't tolerate it and they more so ignore each other.

But anyways... yes I play it much more safe with bully breeds now. Jackson doesn't tend to like their play style anyways. I look at like this ... I know that if I placed Jackson in a room full of mice and rats and squirrels, there'd be nothing I could do to stop those instincts from chasing, grabbing and killing it. I know there wouldn't be. I could be holding the juiciest piece of steak in the world and I have a feeling he'd choose the squirrel (then coming running back to me expecting the food, LOL). So why should I expect every Pit to enjoy the company of other dogs?
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  #33  
Old 07-04-2012, 05:44 PM
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I think Adrienne was the one who stated it was more of a distinction between lineage than across the three breeds themselves. I have to agree.

I have much more experience with APBTs, specifically with the gamebred dogs. Yes, I like gamebred APBTs. Why? Because they ARE the APBT. The APBT was founded here in America, and it's those historical dogs that created the dogs I came to know and love so passionately. IMO, the big shift in the "why" the dogs were bred is what has brought about the drastic increase in human aggressive and unstable dogs we have out there today. But enough of that (that's a whole new thread. lol).

The AST breed began with APBTs, but the breeding went away from the pit. Breeding has been selective upon conformation and temperament, and those who do work their dogs do so more in obedience and similar arenas. The AST is a completely different breed today than the APBT. Now, even though it's focus has been away from dogfighting, you can't breed out a genetic trait form hundreds of years ago in just 75 yearsv(or however many...I can't remember the exact year off the top of my head). With my experience with ASTs, which comes from just a few friends with them and clients' dogs, I've found that the dogs are definitely less dog aggressive, if not downright cold. I think as a breed, it could be said that their is lesser DA within it than the APBT. However, this is still a bulldog and terrier breed, and bulldogs and terriers are also known for being DA, so you're talking about many many years back of having this trait.

Within the APBT, I would say you have to start looking at the lineage. The APBT is becoming one of the most diverse breeds ever (in fact, I say it's about 3+ breeds all under a single breed name). People have begun breeding willy nilly, and standards have been tossed out the window. Some people have been breeding for 30+ years for nothing but square, blocky bodies; some fools have taken unstable dogs and made it a habit of breeding them, but all they breed for is it's aggression (I'm not talking about DA); some people breed for areas such as weightpull agility, and that's resulted in a different type; some people breeding hunting dogs (hog dogs), and IMO those are the closest to the pit-type dogs; and some people still breed dogs for what they were orginally bred to do.

It's very easy for me to say that the pit dogs will have a higher level of DA overall, but again, you cannot breed out a trait hundreds of years old in a comparitively short amount of time.

As for the SBTs, again, I'd say it's the lineage. I know a few European people who have working SBTs, and those dogs look NOTHING like the short, blocky, fat thing you see being paraded around Westminster and whatnot. So I would again say that the working lines have an overall higher increase in DA than the non-working dogs.

To me, DA is not the intended trait that has been bred for, but rather a side affect of their breeding. That side affect is indeed a trait on it's own, but it's not for what or why the dogs were bred.
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  #34  
Old 07-05-2012, 04:15 AM
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My Pit mix Gus had a couple of "enemies" over the years, but only one was truly hated by him, and it was mutual. He was a big yellow Lab named Logan. When Gus was about 6 months old, Logan attacked him when we walked past his house. Gus wasn't hurt much, but it started a lifelong feud. They never had a "showdown", but if I hadn't seen Logan at the boarding kennel in the pen, it could have been very bad, as Logan had a hip replacement and some kind of shoulder issue and Gus was in amazing condition. Gus never started or wanted to start a fight, except with Logan. King is another thing entirely. He tolerates no aggression at all. If a dog tries to push him around, he will react in a negative way. Doesn't matter how big the dog is, or how young, he will try, and almost always succeed in pinning him. He has a few dogs in day care a decade younger, and twice his size, that grovel when he just glances at them..
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  #35  
Old 07-05-2012, 04:27 AM
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up cho bác, chúc bác bán d?t h*ng.
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  #36  
Old 07-05-2012, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangtinskers View Post
up cho bác, chúc bác bán d?t h*ng.
I concur.
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  #37  
Old 07-05-2012, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangtinskers View Post
up cho bác, chúc bác bán d?t h*ng.
I disagree, just to be a doodoohead.
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  #38  
Old 07-05-2012, 12:51 PM
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As someone who works at a daycare, I can honestly say that the two breeds I hate to see coming in the most are pits and GSDs. I can think of one pit off the top of my head who is totally trustworthy ( and a horrendous example of the breed. She's straight from gamebred lines, and is the biggest, wimpiest, shrinking violet who ever lived). All of the other require my very watchful eye at all times.

I don't have as many aggression issues with the GSD's, but every single one is compulsive, needy and will make iteself ill from being seperated from it's people. I can't think of a single one who isn't a neurotic stress case.

Boxers are another trouble breed. I hadn't realized DA/DR was so common in them until I started working there.

I only have a handful of Rottie's and Dobes, but they seem to do alright.
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  #39  
Old 07-05-2012, 01:23 PM
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It's so funny to hear about Boxers being DR/DA. Not that I can't see the potential, but we don't have a single one that's even moderately edgy, and we have 6 that are regulars. One is even intact and he's not SSA or reactive. Must just be our luck in this area.
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  #40  
Old 07-05-2012, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceana View Post
I have met some of the sweetest pittbulls and other bully breeds that people list as "dangerous". The very very few that I have met that were aggresive was only because they werent trained young or worked with at all till they grew up and became a problem.
You do realize though, it's not "all in how you raise them"?
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