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  #11  
Old 08-13-2012, 12:42 PM
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CrazyDogLady CrazyDogLady is offline
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Originally Posted by ihartgonzo View Post
Lol I wouldn't pin a nervous dog down... Unless you want to get bitten and violate trust! I do exactly what is done in this video for my dogs & fosters. My dogs literally come running in and line up when I bring the nail grinder out. For small dogs, a Pedipaws is efficient and quiet.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MuXwKqXTBsE
Like I said, I don't flood a dog unless I know that they can handle it (and this is the only thing I flood). My dogs don't distrust me, for from it. They aren't afraid of the dremel, or of me. They now lay patiently until its done.
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  #12  
Old 08-17-2012, 05:55 PM
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Doberluv Doberluv is offline
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When I worked with my son's dog, there was never any force. She could come lie by me on the couch and work a little on conditioning (and get ice cream. lol) OR.....she could go away if she chose to. The choice was hers. I made staying by me, working in very small increments more reinforcing (Neopolitan ice cream) than going away to the other side of the room. I don't ever train anything with any kind of force. It is much more long lasting and effective to set the dog up so he'll choose to do what I want him to do. It can risk eroding a dog's trust if you force him to do something he finds unpleasant or scary. It might not show up to you, but underneath, many dogs aren't as trusting as people think they are and then you hear...."he bit out of the blue..." He may suppress any kind of response such as biting for the time being, but often will hold it down and then "out of the blue"......he bites. Force is never recommended in conditioning a dog to something he fears or doesn't like. A slow, counter conditioning and desensitizing sets up a better foundation that will build more confidence in the dog about doing scary things or having scary things done to him. You might luck out with a handful of dogs but generally, it's not a good behavioral modification practice to use force and flooding or intimidation type techniques on animals. (from an animal behavior standpoint)
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  #13  
Old 08-17-2012, 07:06 PM
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My dogs see the dremel and they walk over to me and lay down. Then again, I don't use treats to train either, and only use toys rarely. I know what works for my dogs, and I don't like having to wean off treats/etc. They are in no way untrusting of me, I can assure you that. I make sure that I have the dogs trust fully before putting them in any sort of flooding situation, some I never do flood. I realize that no one on this forum knows me, or how much training experience I've had as I am new. But I have been around the dog-training block more then once, and can read body language well enough to know what the dog can and can't handle
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  #14  
Old 08-18-2012, 03:29 AM
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ihartgonzo ihartgonzo is offline
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How do you play "its yer choice" using no treats? Fascinating.

Personally, I find it a lot easier and with a 100% less chance of stress/bites/learned helplessness to use a clicker & treats rather than pin a dog down and force them to take it. No matter how much they trust me or can handle it.
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  #15  
Old 08-18-2012, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihartgonzo View Post
How do you play "its yer choice" using no treats? Fascinating.
That was trained with treats, as were a couple other things that I didn't have another option. Teaching self control is different from creating/modifying behaviors, way way different.
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