Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dog Training Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 06-12-2012, 06:59 PM
yoko's Avatar
yoko yoko is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 5,341
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara! View Post
Once again, the dog I pop on the nose and the dog I hit with the leash are two completely different dogs. Thanks. The hitting with the leash wasn't really a form of training, and I admit my fault on that part. But it did cease the behavior.

And no, I do not prefer to hit my dog on the nose. But it is what works for him when everything else has failed, another thing I have stated multiple times. I didn't just start popping him on the nose first thing.
I really don't care if it was on one dog or two dogs it still wrong.

There are other less harsh methods that people are trying to help you with for free. You can say you tried it but obviously your timing is off/sucks or something. It's not the dog that's failing here it's you. It sucks to hear it and if you ever realize it I am going to guess that will suck too. But you refusal to go back and try with all this new information while people are here who are willing to answer any of your questions if it isn't working out isn't hurting anyone but your dog and your future as a legitimate trainer.
__________________
Thank you Vivien and Angel Chicken for the siggy! Also I have been frosted!!! And as of 9/13/07 I know the secret handshake!


Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 06-12-2012, 07:01 PM
Barbara!'s Avatar
Barbara! Barbara! is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,457
Default

Sure! Whatever you say. Once again, no one here knows my dog or what I have tried. So...the circle keeps going.
__________________
"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself." -D.H. Lawrence

"Only when the last tree is cut, only when the last river is polluted, only when the last fish is caught, will they realize that you can’t eat money." –Native American proverb
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 06-12-2012, 07:09 PM
yoko's Avatar
yoko yoko is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 5,341
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara! View Post
Sure! Whatever you say. Once again, no one here knows my dog or what I have tried. So...the circle keeps going.
So do what was suggested get a video and show us. Show us the dog 'not getting it'. Show us that trying to teach the dog a cue doesn't work. Show all of that.

You can keep saying you want to be a trainer and you think we are all wrong but honestly I think that your refusal to try to work with people who WANT to help you learn a gentler way of training your dog speaks quite a bit and pretty loudly about what kind of trainer you'll end up being.
__________________
Thank you Vivien and Angel Chicken for the siggy! Also I have been frosted!!! And as of 9/13/07 I know the secret handshake!


Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 06-12-2012, 07:11 PM
Laurelin's Avatar
Laurelin Laurelin is offline
I'm All Ears
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 29,521
Default

I would be really curious to know the exact steps taken to teach the dog to get off the bed before you resorted to hitting it.
__________________
Mia CGC - (5 year old Papillon)
Summer TG3 TIAD - (10 year old Papillon)
Hank - (approx. 10 month old Spotty Dog)
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 06-12-2012, 07:19 PM
Danefied's Avatar
Danefied Danefied is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Southeast
Posts: 1,722
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara! View Post
And you don't believe in refresher training? I have to do refreshers with Chevelle every once in a while or she gets commands confused. I look at this similarly.
Nope. That’s the beauty of TRUE rewards based training where the dog has to figure it out. Once they get it, its locked in. Believe me, it is LOCKED in! Just ask me how hard it was to UN teach my dog to step on my foot when finding heel. And he STILL defaults to that sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara! View Post
And no, I do not prefer to hit my dog on the nose. But it is what works for him when everything else has failed, another thing I have stated multiple times. I didn't just start popping him on the nose first thing.
What does “everything else failed” mean really? I’ve always wanted to ask this when people say “I tried EVERYTHING and X was the only thing that worked.”
Everything? Really? Did you put on a grass skirt and dance the hula hula?
Or in this case, did you try shaping the behavior? Do you know how to shape behaviors?
__________________
"We become better trainers by refusing to swallow uncritically what is tossed to us as truth,
by developing our powers of empathy and observation,
and by searching for better ways to teach and educate the dogs we love."
~Suzanne Clothier
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 06-12-2012, 07:20 PM
*blackrose's Avatar
*blackrose *blackrose is offline
"I'm kupo for kupo nuts!"
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 6,109
Default

I'm just going to pop in here real quick and then run back and hide in my little hidey hole...

Barbara, I agree with you on this:
Quote:
But I also believe that there are certain dogs that could use correction in their training to help improve on top of positive reinforcement.
I use positive reinforcement/luring/shaping techniques when I am teaching something, for the most part. I think there are less than a handful of things I'll actually teach with a correction. But, I do use corrections to correct the dog. Not to teach, but to correct. There is a difference. I use corrections on my dogs...they aren't fearful.

But, there is a difference in HOW you correct. I can think of very few instances where I have actually hit/gotten physical my dog, and most of those were out of impulse. (Like when Blackie lunged at a truck driving by - it scared the bejesus out of me and my initial reflex was to smack him on the butt and tell him NO. Or when Chloe as a pup lunged at me over a piece of trash as I was approaching her and I scruffed her and tossed her about five feet away from me out of pure instinct.) I don't think any of those instances did any good whatsoever (nor did they do any harm), but they happened.

I think most of the "correcting" I do with my dogs is purely emotive. Tone of voice, body language, and posture. I have nothing against training collars, squirt bottles, shake cans, etc. when used the proper way with the right dog. I've also used the "shock and awe" technique before, although never really on purpose. LOL I remember hollering for Rose once and she decided to take off in the other direction. I followed and accidentally stepped on a corn stalk, breaking it, which let out a loud POP. She dropped to the ground and didn't give me any problems for quite some time with her recall. lol

The point being, you shouldn't have to physically manhandle your dog in order to teach or reinforce something. Even if you feel like that is the only way, it most likely isn't.

Sort of as an example for how different techniques work for different dogs, we have four dogs and all of them were taught to not get on the furniture without being invited:
Cynder, I think, just naturally sort of knew. She's a good dog.
Gracie, after being hollered at to "get off" a few times when she got up onto the couch, has stopped doing it completely unless she's invited. She's sensitive and wilts when she's scolded.
Cooper is told to get off as well, but he is also swiped or booted off, depending on what body part he lands by. He's grasped the concept very well. Even when he is excited and starts to jump up onto the couch out of habit, he'll correct himself mid air and do a weird little sideways hop/flip to make sure he doesn't connect with the sofa. LOL
Chloe was taught "off" via a lure, and she'll get off of whatever she's on if you tell her to.
__________________
Cynder, Daddy's girl Little Lab muttly and Abrams, Momma's boy Chesapeake Bay Retriever
~*~ DOB 1/28/2006 ~*~ DOB 4/11/13 ~*~

Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 06-12-2012, 08:11 PM
Beanie's Avatar
Beanie Beanie is offline
Clicker Cult Coordinator
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 13,421
Default

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LWkOQ2YHT0#t=00m38s
__________________


Auggie - The Flash RN NAJ MXP MJP CGC
Payton - Sharp Dressed Man NA NAJ CGC
Pepper - Chocolate Swizz-l-icious
& the pest, Georgie - Peach Pudding N Pie NA OAJ
The Sheltiechick Blog
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 06-12-2012, 08:15 PM
MafiaPrincess's Avatar
MafiaPrincess MafiaPrincess is offline
Obvious trollsare Obvious
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 6,134
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoko View Post
:O Are you serious? Did anyone do that after reading it? Was it a troll or did they really mean that? I can't believe any 'advice' that was like that would be tolerated on any dog forum where dogs were actually cared about.
Sadly I am serious. Was the first forum I found after I acquired Cider. Took me a long time to find others. Everyone told the twit off when she posted as most of her 'advice' was borderline between horrendous and abuse and we hoped no one would blindly do it.. but she'd advocate awful stuff often and call it training.
__________________

Stop paddling your own douchecanoe

CRB Houdini's Apple Cider RXMCL AGDC AADC MSDC MJDC RNT CL3-F CL3-H EXJ Bronze
AAC's Top Dog List ~~ 2007-11 Q's ~~ 2008-11 Q's ~~ 2009-10 Q's
AAC's Overall Top Dog List - 47 Q's and 7 Titles


Stanton Acres Out Of The Ashes SGDC RNMCL MJDC ADC CL3-F CL3-S CL3-H SD-S (SP)
AAC's Top Dog List 2009 - 12 Q's

Stark Naked Burn It To The Ground

Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 06-12-2012, 08:16 PM
yoko's Avatar
yoko yoko is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 5,341
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
I just laughed and got root beer in my nose and it burns so bad but this keeps cracking me up XD

What is it from?
__________________
Thank you Vivien and Angel Chicken for the siggy! Also I have been frosted!!! And as of 9/13/07 I know the secret handshake!


Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 06-12-2012, 08:23 PM
Beanie's Avatar
Beanie Beanie is offline
Clicker Cult Coordinator
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 13,421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoko View Post
I just laughed and got root beer in my nose and it burns so bad but this keeps cracking me up XD

What is it from?
It's from Best In Show! If you haven't seen it you totally need to. This is my fave Posey Parker role I think, even though she plays pretty much the same role in every movie.
WHERE ARE MY TICTACS, UUUUUGH
__________________


Auggie - The Flash RN NAJ MXP MJP CGC
Payton - Sharp Dressed Man NA NAJ CGC
Pepper - Chocolate Swizz-l-icious
& the pest, Georgie - Peach Pudding N Pie NA OAJ
The Sheltiechick Blog
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:23 AM.


©1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site