Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > The Dog Breeds


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 06-04-2012, 07:36 AM
Halee.R's Avatar
Halee.R Halee.R is offline
Puppy Dog
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 55
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
I have a smooth collie and he LOVES people. He is trained to ignore them when he's working, but when he's off-duty his favorite hobby is schmoozing people. The day I met him he had his face in my face the entire drive from the airport to the breeder, flirting away. He's never met anyone he doesn't like.

He can be a watch dog, too, and when he barks he can sound intimidating (but my boxer usually provides the intimidating factor). He is very alert to what's going on outside, but not so much that he barks at everything. A few nights ago some creature was in the back yard and Logan was NOT okay with it - he was upstairs with me in my room, and he roared at the window when he heard whatever it was.

Logan is an extremely confident, outgoing dog, but a lot of that has to do with how he was bred and raised. I got him at a year old, and his breeder did a FANTASTIC job raising him. Nothing phases him, and he passed his ATTS temperament test with scored mostly mid-range, which is for the most part minimal reactions to anything.

I flew halfway across the country to get Logan. The collies around here (central US) seem to be very poorly bred for the most part. I was dogsitting a bunch of collies last summer and they all had some sort of fear/anxiety/shyness issue. There are some great collies around here, you just have to look a little harder - and keep in mind that the smoothies tend to have a different personality than the roughs, just by a bit. There was one collie I dogsat a few years ago, a rough, and she was an absolute doll, but had a lot of health problems. Things to look out for are seizures (very common in collies), eye problems (specifically CEA and related issues), skin problems/allergies, digestive issues, and joint problems as they get older (though that's less common in collies than it is in many other breeds). Logan has very, very mild CEA, and it doesn't affect him at all. The only thing noticeably different is that he has red eyeshine instead of blue or green. Many, many collies have CEA but it's not always a problem and often causes no issues at all.
I feel like I'm leaning more towards the Smooth Collie because number one, they look like they make a heck of a better watch dog than a BMD, and second, they live ALOT longer than a BMD. I don't think 8 years or so is very long for me.

Do you think a Smooth Collie would protect its owner in a dangerous situation?? I've always thought Collies were the more friendly type and wouldn't do anything. But from reading more about them, they seem like they can become so bonded to their owners, I actually wouldn't be surprised if they did do something.

How much exercise do they need? My kind of exercise is taking long brisk walks and I really like jogging through woods.

Would it be easier to find a reputable Smooth Collie breeder than it would to find a reputable BMD breeder??
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-04-2012, 03:22 PM
Aleron's Avatar
Aleron Aleron is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 2,270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halee.R View Post
Do you think a Smooth Collie would protect its owner in a dangerous situation?? I've always thought Collies were the more friendly type and wouldn't do anything. But from reading more about them, they seem like they can become so bonded to their owners, I actually wouldn't be surprised if they did do something.
Some may and certainly some have. However, you shouldn't rely on any untrained, untested dog to actually physically protect you when push comes to shove. Even plenty of dogs of guarding breeds don't know what to do when confronted by an aggressive human without training. A lot of dogs with no training will back down if someone is aggressive towards them. Breeds which are most likely to fight back are probably more than what you seem like you want to handle training, socialization and management wise. Generally though, the presence of a big, especially dark colored dog is enough to deter most people. And if it isn't, then even a trained protection dog may not be enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halee.R View Post
How much exercise do they need? My kind of exercise is taking long brisk walks and I really like jogging through woods.
It varies some what I think. Some are more high energy than others. Many of the ones I have been around in more recent times are pretty laid back, definitely walking/jogging would be enough for them. Even for the more active ones the walks/jogs combined with some training time and one on one play would be enough. IME most Collies are good house dogs - active when you want to be active, able to chill when you want to chill.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Halee.R View Post
Would it be easier to find a reputable Smooth Collie breeder than it would to find a reputable BMD breeder??
It isn't so much that it is hard to find a good breeder of BMDs (or Collies or really most breeds), especially if you are looking mostly for a good pet. The issue with BMDs is that even the really well bred ones from great breeders tend to have a high risk of health issues and short lifespans. The problems in them are widespread throughout the breed. That isn't to say there is a such thing in any breed as an entirely healthy line of dogs because even dogs from the best lines can end up with health issues, since genetics are not always predictable. But some breeds are more prone to widespread, fatal or potentially fatal diseases and BMDs are one of those breeds.

This list is a potential place to look for Collie breeders in your area or available Collies: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/COLLIECLASSIFIEDS/

You can also see if there are any CCA contact people in your area: http://www.collieclubofamerica.org/c...directors.html
__________________
Nikki & the Herding Breed Variety Pack
Visit Us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Alerondogs
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-06-2012, 10:44 PM
lizzybeth727's Avatar
lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 6,403
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halee.R View Post
Do you think a Smooth Collie would protect its owner in a dangerous situation?? I've always thought Collies were the more friendly type and wouldn't do anything. But from reading more about them, they seem like they can become so bonded to their owners, I actually wouldn't be surprised if they did do something.
Like Aleron said, a large dark dog will deter most people you'd ever have to worry about.

Keegan's VERY bonded with me, but I think that if I were ever attacked, probably all he would do would be to bark and get really upset. If he were to bite the attacker (which I doubt), it would probably just be a quick snap and then he'd back off. He'd probably be very confused about the whole situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halee.R View Post
How much exercise do they need? My kind of exercise is taking long brisk walks and I really like jogging through woods.
Again like Aleron said, collies were "made" to be family dogs, work the farm during the day but come in the house and chill at night. Keegan's ALWAYS up for activity, but he chills pretty well too. He's MUCH higher energy than my chihuahua (and she's not lazy by any means).

More than physical exercise, Keegan needs a lot of mental exercise. I do a lot of outings with him, where he gets to ride in the car and go somewhere just to hang out with me. We go to the park and explore, go to a restaurant and eat on the patio, go to training classes, pet stores, etc.

If we just, for example, go out in the yard and play ball to exercise, he gets bored with it before he gets physically tired. So the mental component is definately a bigger deal than the physical component.

Remember too that most collie people think (and I agree) that smoothies are a bit more intense than roughs. IME I also think that smoothie breeders prefer dogs that are a bit more intense, which just continues the trend. The roughs I've met tend to have a bit less energy - physical and mental - than the smooths, though of course this may not be true of every individual dog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halee.R View Post
Would it be easier to find a reputable Smooth Collie breeder than it would to find a reputable BMD breeder??
I don't know about BMD breeders, but I do know that there are only a handful of smoothie breeders that I'd personally buy a dog from (though I'm extremely picky). I think because roughs are overwhelmingly more popular, most collie breeders breed at least some roughs, so the smooths are much less common.

I can PM you some names if you're interested.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-06-2012, 11:16 PM
Raegan's Avatar
Raegan Raegan is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
Posts: 362
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
It isn't so much that it is hard to find a good breeder of BMDs (or Collies or really most breeds), especially if you are looking mostly for a good pet. The issue with BMDs is that even the really well bred ones from great breeders tend to have a high risk of health issues and short lifespans. The problems in them are widespread throughout the breed. That isn't to say there is a such thing in any breed as an entirely healthy line of dogs because even dogs from the best lines can end up with health issues, since genetics are not always predictable. But some breeds are more prone to widespread, fatal or potentially fatal diseases and BMDs are one of those breeds.
The Berner club in my area puts out a new puppy pamphlet that includes the phrase "Two years a young dog, two years a good dog, two years an old dog; all else is a gift from god." The Berners I know are slow maturing as well. It's a tight spot to be in.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-06-2012, 11:50 PM
Saeleofu's Avatar
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
Jelly baby?
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 9,016
Default

Quote:
I can PM you some names if you're interested.
I was going to make the same offer, but I'm pretty sure our lists would be pretty similar lol.

Logan is from Moxie Collies in Washington. I also really adore what I have seen of Deep River collies. There are others, too, but those are my top two from what I have seen.

Logan has an increedible off switch. He'll go all day if I want and still be ready for more, but be just as ready to crash if I don't want to do anything. I can and have gone days without doing much at all with him, even walks, and he's been fine through it all. The most he does, now that he's all grown up, is get a bit more barky than usual if he's bored. I do have a spray collar (I use unscented spray) for barking that works extremely well when barking starts to get out of hand.
__________________


Vortex Canine - Custom Harnesses and Leashes

"Never cruel nor cowardly. Never give up. Never give in."
~The Doctor
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-07-2012, 07:40 AM
Aleron's Avatar
Aleron Aleron is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 2,270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzybeth727 View Post

I don't know about BMD breeders, but I do know that there are only a handful of smoothie breeders that I'd personally buy a dog from (though I'm extremely picky). I think because roughs are overwhelmingly more popular, most collie breeders breed at least some roughs, so the smooths are much less common.

I can PM you some names if you're interested.
I think someone looking for a pet doesn't need to be near as picky as someone looking for a SD. Actually things which would rule out breeders for a potential SD like dogs with lower energy levels and lower drive can make great pets for most people. When I did my "Collie Tour" of the Collie breeders in my area, I ended up disappointed to not find what I was looking for. But I'd not hesitate to suggest any of the breeders I went to someone looking for a pet. The dogs were all friendly, sweet, nice dogs and the breeders all obviously cared about their dogs, really loved Collies and did health testing. None were even close to drivey enough for me though, as a performance prospect. Had I been looking for a nice pet though, any of the litters I looked at could have worked well.

I have not personally seen where Smooths are as a whole, more intense or drivey, though I wish it were true! I looked at several Smooths and none were all that drivey. One was a 4 month old puppy who was so laid back, he didn't even get off his dog bed to see us when he walked in. Nice puppy, cute and sweet and the breeder had already trained him a lot of stuff but really laid back. I have seen more intense and driven Roughs and Smooths but I wouldn't say either is IME typical of the breed. I also know someone who bred Smooths and they tended to be a lot more calm and laid back than my Rough was (although, so were most of the Roughs I've been around). I know a family who got a fairly wild Smooth from the former CCA president - very fun loving and exuberant dog. He still was a good house dog though and I wouldn't call him "intense". Of course, that could be because I have had GSDs, Belgians, a wild Cardi and a PyrShep
__________________
Nikki & the Herding Breed Variety Pack
Visit Us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Alerondogs
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-07-2012, 11:17 PM
lizzybeth727's Avatar
lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 6,403
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
I think someone looking for a pet doesn't need to be near as picky as someone looking for a SD. Actually things which would rule out breeders for a potential SD like dogs with lower energy levels and lower drive can make great pets for most people.
Probably so, but I don't need a SD, I was looking for a pet dog when I was looking for collie breeders.

I do, however, train SDs professionally for a nonprofit organization, so I know a lot about good SD temperament. One thing people don't realize is that SDs actually need to be pretty low energy; most SD owners - at least the ones my organization works with - are home a lot and don't have the energy/ability to spend a lot of time exercising and training a dog. Of course it totally depends on the person's disability and lifestyle, but in general we're looking for pretty sedate dogs that are willing to get up and help when they're needed, but go back and lay down when they're not needed.

Keegan's only about 18 months old, but at this point there are very few of our clients that would be able to handle him if he were a SD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
I looked at several Smooths and none were all that drivey.
I didn't necessarily mean that smooths are drivey (because that really depends on what you're used to), but that they're a bit more intense than roughs. And again, there are tons of exceptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
One was a 4 month old puppy who was so laid back, he didn't even get off his dog bed to see us when he walked in.
That's definately NOT Keegan, or any of his litter mates, I'd guess.

Sounds like a good SD, though.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-08-2012, 12:20 AM
Saeleofu's Avatar
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
Jelly baby?
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 9,016
Default

Quote:
One thing people don't realize is that SDs actually need to be pretty low energy;
I couldn't function with a "mellow" or low-drive SD. Logan's just perfect for me. I'd die of boredom just training one, not to mention having to work with one every day lol
__________________


Vortex Canine - Custom Harnesses and Leashes

"Never cruel nor cowardly. Never give up. Never give in."
~The Doctor
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-08-2012, 08:27 AM
RBark's Avatar
RBark RBark is offline
Got Floof?
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 727
Default

Quote:
Bernese Mountain Dog Vs Smooth Collie?
I think the Bernese Mountain Dog would win in that fight, the longer reach and more muscular body would prove to be an advantage. Though the Smooth Collie might win if he's smart enough to be quick and agile. If he has a good understanding of the "Float like a Butterfly, Sting like a Bee" tactic he just might have what it takes to beat the Bernese Mountain Dog.

Still though, I'm going to have to place my money on the Bernese Mountain Dog. /nod.

__________________

Kobe the Fluffy Cloud, Alaskan Malibu-te, Mar. '05
Syl the Stormblessed, Border Collie, Dec. '13

Always in my heart, my Ollie
Always by my side, Priscilla vom Grunenfeld


Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-08-2012, 09:58 AM
Halee.R's Avatar
Halee.R Halee.R is offline
Puppy Dog
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 55
Default

Well, what I like about the Smooth Collie is that, they are excellent watch dogs, they seem pretty devoted/loyal to their owners, they seem like they would be easily trainable, velcro dogs, (something I highly desire) they aren't overly aggressive or friendly with strangers, overall I love their temperament.

What I don't like about them is that, alot of Collie owners say they will bark alot, and their not exactly that intimidating.

What I like about the BMD is that their, extremely loyal to their owners, they also are a clingy velcro dog, their in the middle friendliness with strangers, their size and looks are kind of intimidating. I love their size! And I've just always been attracted to Berners since I first saw a picture of them.

What I don't like about them is that they have a very short life span, they have PLENTY of health problems, and their not as good of a watch dog as a Collie is.

So now I'm not sure what breed I should be looking into. When I compare them both to my wants and needs, they have an equal amount of pros and cons.

Thoughts???
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:09 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site