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Old 12-08-2005, 11:09 AM
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Angelique Angelique is offline
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I'm very sad to say this, but unless this dog is fully rehabilitated, which takes a very skilled and expensive professional. I don't see much hope here.

I also agree, PTS may be the only option for a dog who not only bites, but does not let go. There are some lines of pits, which are specifically bred for their tenacity to hold on in the fight ring, no matter what. You may have a dog from one of those lines.

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Reward the good, ignore the bad, and always remember to duck during the temper tantrums!

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" Albert Einstein

Here's to you, Jane Goodall. So much insight into the mind of a species from someone who's never trained a single chimp.
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Old 12-08-2005, 11:57 AM
Athebeau Athebeau is offline
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Some breeds with enhanced drives can very easiely go into predatory drift. When a dog attacks another dog, child or any other small animal during predatory drift....they do it silently.

I went through the same dog aggression issues with my rescue Rottweiler...and with the full enhanced predatory drives these breeds can and will be more dangerous than breeds that are not finishers. My Rottweiler attacked one of my dogs due to predatory drift, tried to attack a small dog, was playing with another dog, and when the other dog yelped it put Athena into predatory drift and the dog suddenly turned into a prey object.

I have owned dogs for almost 40 years, and this was the first time I experienced this. It took using a basket muzzle when out in public, an animal behaviorist who practice Positive training only...if you start beating a dog for a natural drive it will only get worse....never better. We taught Athena emergency down (if she happened to be off lead and I saw a rabbit etc. I could make her lay down, walk over and snap on her leash). I taught her "off" or some people use "drop it"...I like "off" as it is quick and a sharp command that my dog responds to well.

It took me a couple of years to try and desensitize Athena. I still don't trust her around small dogs, so, I avoid situations and when in public (vet etc.) she always wears a basket muzzle.

The behaviors you described are not unusual, but, they are dangerous and you either need to consult with a professional animal behaviorist who understands drives...or the dog needs to be placed in a "safe" home. Or as others mentioned the dog should be reaccessed and either put to sleep or given to a professional who can work with the dog.

Dog aggression in close nit societies can be dangerous. Especially if they have proven they display redirected aggression towards humans. It's rare or due to poor socialization, upbringing that a dog will redirect aggression even in the heat of a fight towards a human. This goes for all breeds. If my male Newf got in a fight with another male Newf' I know for a fact he would never display redirected aggression towards my lifetime I have seperated many dog fights...and never once has the dog turned around on me.

Take the advise of others, you really need help from a hands on professional or take the dog back. You may find yourself getting sued in the future and knowing you have a dangerous dog is just as bad as walking around with a loaded pistol....maybe it won't go off...maybe it will...and next time, maybe it will be a child who will put your dog into predatory drift. I don't want to read about you in the papers

Just to add, my Rottie still stalks other dogs and I still would never ever in a million years trust her with unfamiliar dogs. Even with my Newf's and Dobe she will stalk and chase's in her breeding to do this. She would be great doing her job. My other dogs learned to freeze when she eye stalks-quietly. Once the other dog moves then Athena runs in for the attack. She can't hurt a Newf and Beau is too quick. Other than those normal predatory attacks, Athena loves the other dogs and is perfect with them in all other circumstances. It just takes that one moment that another dog, child etc can put them into predatory drift. This is why this normal behavior for some breeds has proven to be dangerous and has even ended up in mauling deaths for some unfortunate people and dogs.

Good luck, I hope you do the right thing.
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Old 12-08-2005, 12:16 PM
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bubbatd bubbatd is offline
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I hate to say this, but I'd be scared to death to own such a dog. To me, owning a dog is a pleasure ......... This dog isn't. Someone or some dog is going to be hurt. The holding on, really bothers me.
A light for all who are crossing dark times.
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