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  #21  
Old 05-25-2012, 12:32 PM
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Kayota Kayota is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenmagick View Post
Depending on the situation, I can see the point I think that was trying to be made. I have seen a lot of overfriendly outgoing dogs (think the stereotypical golden) who when a bit nervous respond by being even more friendly. You could pop them all day and the just keep wagging and kissing. But, do a couple slow calm pets, connect, and calmly ask for something and they sit.

I didnt see where she said she grabbed the dogs face, gave him a hard stare and growled at them...that would be totally different.
Thank you... If it helps, this dog was the friendliest, most hyper field-bred lab I've ever met. He was just licking my face the whole time. And once again I'm tired of defending myself. I didn't mean to cause such a stink... I definitely wouldn't do this with any dog and I don't understand why everyone is pushing me when I already said I agree. "do a couple slow calm pets, connect, and calmly ask for something and they sit." is EXACTLY how it happened... No real "staring" or "grabbing" involved as I keep trying to say. Once again I'm sorry I came of the way I did, but I really wish people would just drop it already. No one has any idea what the situation was or how the dog was acting and rest assured that if the dog had looked any way uncomfortable with me touching him that I would have backed away immediately. I don't just walk up to strange dogs and start "grabbing" them...
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  #22  
Old 05-25-2012, 12:39 PM
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Just a heads up but if you come across knowing better than others on a forum you're bound to be challenged. Prongs are properly used with quick pops, not restraining pulls. Prongs are a useful, helpful tool. To dismiss a tool entirely and in turn snub ones nose at those that utilize said tool will only make those come to defense of the tool on this forum, on either side of the fence.

I personally don't need anyone grabbing my dogs faces, no matter how gently, they may bite. Also though I don't let techs wander off with them as a rule do we agree there. Lol

I am sure you did nothing wrong and I understand your point, the flip side is some dogs do much better with less physical commands, or requests, many dogs however flourish with them. You've just got to be carefully aware.
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  #23  
Old 05-25-2012, 12:43 PM
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I don't see where I dismissed them entirely at all... I said, and I quote, "I don't really like prongs... There was a lab on one at the vet office I'm job shadowing at, and it just pulled non stop regardless! I felt so bad for its neck."

I expressed my opinion. I also never snubbed my nose at anyone or ever said anyone was wrong for using them. Just that IN MY OPINION, I do not like prongs.

I agree with you on the latter two points... Just fail to see where I "dismissed" them "entirely" and then "snubbed my nose" at those who use them. Why can't I express a simple opinion without having to defend myself? Nowhere did I say anything along the lines of that. Never said I know better either.
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  #24  
Old 05-25-2012, 01:10 PM
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Fair enough.
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  #25  
Old 05-25-2012, 01:11 PM
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Actually the only way I like to see prongs used (if at all) is to let the dog self correct and not to use any sort of a pop on it.

To the OP your dog is small, so I doubt you are in danger of being dragged (the only clients I ever said ok to a prong were those who physically couldn't restrain their dogs when training.. even then it was our last option. They do have their place, but IMO its not a great 'go too' tool)

Train your dog how you want them to walk. Likely he has no idea.
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  #26  
Old 05-25-2012, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayota View Post
I don't see where I dismissed them entirely at all... I said, and I quote, "I don't really like prongs... There was a lab on one at the vet office I'm job shadowing at, and it just pulled non stop regardless! I felt so bad for its neck."
Prongs don't "pull non stop" on their own. A prong collar is simply a training tool. If someone is "pulling non stop" on a prong, it's the person MISusing the tool that is to blame, and not the tool itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
Actually the only way I like to see prongs used (if at all) is to let the dog self correct and not to use any sort of a pop on it.
Trying to let a dog "self correct" on a prong is a bad idea with my breed (and a lot of other terriers), most I've owned would just hit the end of the lead and choke themselves out with the collar, popping is much more effective. I'd personally rather see someone gradually popping the lead and collar than see a strong dog hit the end of the lead hard with a prong on, but hey, that's just me.
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  #27  
Old 05-25-2012, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
Actually the only way I like to see prongs used (if at all) is to let the dog self correct and not to use any sort of a pop on it.
This is how I use(d) mine. We don't use the prong very often anymore. Cricket wasn't quite getting it at first with clicker/treats. Sometimes she would walk fine and I would reward reward reward, but then the next few tries she would be all over the place even with higher value treats. When I added the prong collar it only took a couple times with her self correcting for her to take a step back and start focusing more on me, the treats and actually training to walk on the leash properly. I will occasionally use the prong collar as a refresher if she is having a dur dur dur moment, but we really don't need to use it much anymore except in really highly distracting situations where she is likely to pay me no attention no matter what. We are still training in those higher distraction settings and the plan is to get her to the point where we hopefully never need the prong collar again.
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  #28  
Old 05-25-2012, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
Actually the only way I like to see prongs used (if at all) is to let the dog self correct and not to use any sort of a pop on it.
This. Both of mine responded to the self-correct without having to hit it hard though.

Tallulah and Kharma both walk well -- 95% of the time. That 5% with Kharma is critical though, plus, having it on her means there is no question that she IS under control.

The 5% of the time with Tallulah keeps her from having her neck rubbed raw from a regular collar. And then there's the "no question of control" even though it's silly with her, just a matter of the public perception because she is a muscular APBT.
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  #29  
Old 05-25-2012, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenSins View Post
I'd personally rather see someone gradually popping the lead and collar than see a strong dog hit the end of the lead hard with a prong on, but hey, that's just me.
This is a fairly simple fix (and yes I breed and train terriers, I know all about their temperaments) dont' give them enough leash to get up a good head of steam. A foot or less of slack is plenty.

And by letting a dog self correct you don't have to worry about having uber perfect timing (as long as your leash is held short enough)
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  #30  
Old 05-25-2012, 04:45 PM
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So you're saying that he'll learn if i just give him very little room?

Btw i watched the video that tucker&me posted. I'd love to do that, but i have yet to find treats he'll eat. Planning to go buy small batches and try them out. Local shelters can always use the extras.
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