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  #41  
Old 05-20-2012, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by SevenSins View Post
You completely failed to actually answer the question I posed.
That's because it's irrelevant to the actual issue -- it's unprofessional, whether it's creepy or motherly.

There are too many variables to know whether it would be creepy or otherwise, but it's still not good professional behavior.
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  #42  
Old 05-20-2012, 11:37 AM
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Know better than to do what, exactly? New scenario: Female counselor puts her hand on boy's knee to console him because he's sad. Creepy, or motherly?
This wasn't a consoling touch though. It's the opposite of consoling, design to throw a kid off balance, make them uncomfortable and hopefully disarm them.

It was a familiar touch combined with a reprimand. If a female counselor put her hand on my child's knee, leaned in close to their face and started in on them, I'd be up in their face making them back off. That's just, eww. That goes for whether my child is male or female. It doesn't really have to do with gender/molestation in this case, it has to do with what is and isn't professional. And it's not professional.

The part where it gets into zomgpedofile!!!!11 is the part where the male counselor is using crappy judgement and putting himself in a situation to be accused. Which is really stupid on his part.
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  #43  
Old 05-20-2012, 11:38 AM
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I know I would've felt uncomfortable. I've never had a father figure around me, so I'm a little skiddish around older males(that aren't related), and that with the combo of watchingL&O SVU...yeah, I would've definitely felt weird. Being the age that I am now, I also would've gotten up immediately and said something to him.
But Hyia is a little girl(actually, she's growing up too fast!)...I can't speak for all kids, but I know that at her age, I probably wouldn't have said anything to the counselor himself.
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  #44  
Old 05-20-2012, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
You have completely, absolutely missed my point, because no I didn't equate those things AT ALL. Which was that one statement/conclusion was just as ridiculous to draw from one's opinion on knee-touching as the other.



It would be nice if we lived in a world where twelve year old children were always confident enough to stand up to people in authority over them. This is getting perilously close to "blame the victim" mentality for my tastes. (ETA: And NO, before someone projects this on me too, I'm not saying that the child in the OP was a "victim"... I'm using it as a general term for the general situation I'm quoting.)
For me to be blaming the victim, I must see a victim. I feel terr is no victim, so in that case, no, I am not.

And are you kidding me? 12 year olds are middle school kids (grade 8 here). They are at that age where they are all about standing up to authority.
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  #45  
Old 05-20-2012, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by JessLough View Post
For me to be blaming the victim, I must see a victim. I feel terr is no victim, so in that case, no, I am not.
Well glad you read that edit clarifying my statement. Again, not saying this girl is a victim. I was speaking to a type of mindset.

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And are you kidding me? 12 year olds are middle school kids (grade 8 here). They are at that age where they are all about standing up to authority.
They are all about talking a talk of standing up to authority. I'd wager most, in a private situation, would not actually stand up for themselves or say anything. Heck, most adults wouldn't.
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  #46  
Old 05-20-2012, 11:44 AM
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This is not a "normal" 12 year old under "normal" circumstances. And even if she were, not all 12 year olds -- or even 16 year olds for that matter -- are self-assured enough to be the adult in a scenario like that.

The burden of being the professional adult lies with the professional adult.
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  #47  
Old 05-20-2012, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by JessLough View Post
In ANY situation, even if one person "should know better", if a child is uncomfortable, they should say it. It is the job of tw adult figure to teach said child to state when she is uncomfortable the FIRST time it happens.
It's also the job of the caregiving adults to step in and shield their CHILDREN from situations they aren't emotionally developed enough to handle yet.

Oh yeah. I forgot, your parents taught you everything you need to know to be an autonomous adult by age 7.

Smkie did a wonderful job stepping in for Hyia, because she is an amazing parent who gives a ****.

ETA: Children are conditioned specifically to trust and obey adults in authority positions (like the councilor) regardless of how uncomfortable it makes them feel. It's a pretty huge stretch to assume that a 12 year old will have the maturity to recognize that this person in authority is doing something inappropriate and call them out on it as it's happening.

Maybe if it was a stranger, but not someone they're used to obeying. That's why child molesters are generally someone the kids know well and it's not usually a total stranger. The kids are less likely to call a familiar authority figure out. (NOT saying this guy is a molester, just that's how the dynamic works as far as speaking out against an adult's behavior).
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  #48  
Old 05-20-2012, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
You have completely, absolutely missed my point, because no I didn't equate those things AT ALL. Which was that one statement was just as ridiculous as the other.
No, I'm pretty sure I didn't miss the point.

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It would be nice if we lived in a world where twelve year old children were always confident enough to stand up to people in authority over them. This is getting perilously close to "blame the victim" mentality for my tastes.
WHAT "victim!?" There is no VICTIM here, FFS.

You know what? Seriously, it's people like you and some others in this thread that make me, as a man, feel like parents are looking at me like I'm a creeper if I so much as glance over at some kids playing on the school playground while I'm sitting at the park with my dog.

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Originally Posted by Romy View Post
The part where it gets into zomgpedofile!!!!11 is the part where the male counselor is using crappy judgement and putting himself in a situation to be accused. Which is really stupid on his part.
Apparently being born with outdoor plumbing put him in enough of a situation to be accused, because...

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Originally Posted by Romy View Post
This wasn't a consoling touch though. It's the opposite of consoling, design to throw a kid off balance, make them uncomfortable and hopefully disarm them.
"That's different." No, it wasn't consoling, but it IS normal human body language to touch another person while confronting them.
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  #49  
Old 05-20-2012, 11:47 AM
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AHMEN Romy and Renee , I think they just dont know because they haven't been around to know the back story.

EDIT:: Seven , i do see how you could feel that away , and I get why you are arguing the point , but it is just the way the world turns now a days .

For the record though I WATCH , like BIRD DOG WATCH anyone at a playground that does not have kids.

Now in a regular park then yeah they dont get the staring treatment , but just hanging around a playground around kids , yeah creepy also.

Hate to be this way , but it is just the way it is.
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  #50  
Old 05-20-2012, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
This is not a "normal" 12 year old under "normal" circumstances.
If this is not a "normal" 12 year old then the OP failed to disclose details about THIS particular 12 year old that some of us wouldn't know, and how were these not "normal" circumstances aside from the fact that apparently, said 12 year old was being confronted by a school counselor for allegedly lying?
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