Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dog Training Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 05-14-2012, 10:57 AM
PWCorgi's Avatar
PWCorgi PWCorgi is offline
Priscilla Winifred Corgi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Twin Citay!
Posts: 14,639
Default

It bugs the crap out of me when people come in and buy a prong or choke for a puppy THAT THEY HAVEN'T EVEN BROUGHT HOME YET!!

Crate? Check!
Leash? Check!
ID tag? Check!
Prong? Check!

__________________

Ado's Gimme Victory RL1* "Siri"
1.5 year old Jack Russell Terrier
Gimme Drugs Not Hugs RL1 "Frodo"
8 year old Pembroke Welsh Corgi


*All Siri's rally/obedience titles are to be considered handled by Megan,
because ain't nobody (read: me) got time or skills fo' dat.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-14-2012, 10:59 AM
SaraB SaraB is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 5,716
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
Eh, if a crutch or quick fix means the difference between a dog not getting walked or worked with at all and getting walked or worked with, then I don't really care either way as long as someone is using it correctly - i.e. not yanking dogs or puppies around willy-nilly. Some people just aren't motivated to train.
This. I would rather have my Puppy K students learn from me the proper way to use a training tool than have me deny them the use of the tool and have them experiment with it on their own.
__________________


Taboo, Zuma, Mighty Mouse, Zinga, Edgar, Zip Tie
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-14-2012, 02:34 PM
stafinois's Avatar
stafinois stafinois is online now
Professional Nerd
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Mayberry
Posts: 1,617
Default

I will admit, I use a Gentle Leader on Stan.

One of my biggest reasons is clear mental separation of brainless walking time and training. Sometimes I just want to go for a walk for exercise and fun and not worry about him pulling (which he's not horrible about anyway). Stan also has a tendency to eat random items if given the chance, so the extra control on that banana snout is kind of nice. I will admit that in this way I am using it as a crutch, and I'm cool with that.

Stan's future is in competition obedience, and I'm training the exercises differently and a bit more broken down than I've done in the past. I'm working very hard on positioning right now with very little actual movement thrown in. As the positioning gets better I throw in a few more steps here and there, but not a lot. It will come as we go. It's slow going and feels a bit like I'm training backwards, but I think that I will have a better competition dog in the end.

The heel on lead has always been a weak spot for my dogs and me, so I'm obviously doing something wrong that I can't put my finger on. I'm hoping that separating brainless fun walks and work by having leashes attached to different parts of his body will help. I tried a couple of different harnesses as well, and came back to the GL mostly because of his goat-like tendencies.

This might just be some weird, harebrained experiment of mine that will go poorly. Only time will tell. In the end, I think Stan will be fine for having had worn a GL from such a young age.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-14-2012, 04:06 PM
Assamiea's Avatar
Assamiea Assamiea is online now
Big Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 185
Default

When I first got Rocky I had a vet who advocated that everyone that brought in a new puppy try to train their dogs with a regular collar first and then if that wasn't going well to try a Gentle Leader (but only after they tried to train their dog, and not as a fast fix-all).

Personally I don't have a problem with a choke or prong collar IF the owner knows how to use them correctly, but I would try a regular collar first and not jump directly into another training device. I find that a lot of people that I have seen and some I have known go into a pet store looking for a choke or prong because they think it will be a catch-all fix for their dog. They buy it, then put it on their dog in the store and try to yank the crap out of it, but they still don't understand why their dog isn't trained 2 weeks down the road.

There was a story in my local newspaper a few years ago where a family bought two puppies and were using choke chains as their dogs' normal collar from day one, they even said that the pet store recommended that they buy choke chains for their dogs. The story was about how one of the puppies got it's collar stuck on something and the collar started to choke it. The family's youngest son noticed and took the collar off of the dog. The story was proclaiming the boy as a hero for saving his dog, but not once did it caution people to not leave their dogs unattended with a choke chain on.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-14-2012, 08:21 PM
Bahamutt99's Avatar
Bahamutt99 Bahamutt99 is offline
Dafuq?
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: High Ridge, MO
Posts: 2,365
Default

I sell a lot of No-pull devices. People don't like to hear there's training and brainwork involved, so I usually try to sell them the one that is the least likely to fall apart or cause trauma if they fail to watch the enclosed DVD and follow instructions. I steer a lot of those folks to the no-pull harness that hooks up in front of the chest. And then I silently wish for the best for their dog. Counting on an inanimate tool to do your training for you is mind-boggling to me.
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lindsay
& the Gravity Dogs


Now entering the land of hypnotic signatures...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-14-2012, 09:18 PM
Bailey08's Avatar
Bailey08 Bailey08 is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,467
Default

I signed Grace up for one of the first available classes that looked decent -- I wasn't looking for the training, but wanted to get the little hellion socialized as much and as early as possible. Anyway, among other really fantastic advice, the "trainer" said that all puppies should be on head halters or no-pull harnesses. Her (adult) Westie, she told us several times, was on a GL. Oh, and they sold both halters and harnesses and she could fit them for us for free!

I signed us up for the classes I initially wanted (these were really, really bad) and we stopped going, but we went to one last class (our second) and Grace was the only one with a flat collar.

I want G walking on a loose leash ASAP, bc it was not fun teaching my adult dog and puppies are so much easier (actually, I hate teaching LLW! Guess obed is not in my future. ). And, in any event, I don't think head halters (used by the average owner -- I think Sue Garrett uses them on her puppies) or harnesses are all that good for growing puppies. Though I absolutely agree that it's better than no walks. And I understand the impulse for sure!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-14-2012, 11:33 PM
Fran101's Avatar
Fran101 Fran101 is online now
Resident fainting goat
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 12,397
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenmagick View Post
Head collars are a mixed bag for me. Personally, I am trying to avoid any collars as the more I research, the more I dont like ANY neck pressure. Head collars have pros and cons but I can understand starting pups young on them if you are using them instead of a flat buckle collar.

But no, I am not ok with pups being put on chokes or prongs, I dont like adults on them either.
Just really curious about the whole collar/neck pressure thing. I've been hearing that around quite a bit.. and was wondering if you had any info on it

I'm thinking of just going 100% harness from now on, but that's more of a personal comfort issue (I like how harnesses feel while walking a dog, if that makes any sense lol) but was wondering if there was any research on the whole collars vs. harness thing
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-14-2012, 11:45 PM
Bailey08's Avatar
Bailey08 Bailey08 is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,467
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran101 View Post
Just really curious about the whole collar/neck pressure thing. I've been hearing that around quite a bit.. and was wondering if you had any info on it

I'm thinking of just going 100% harness from now on, but that's more of a personal comfort issue (I like how harnesses feel while walking a dog, if that makes any sense lol) but was wondering if there was any research on the whole collars vs. harness thing
Both Grace's breeder and my trainer advise against them for puppies because they restrict the pups' range of motion. Obviously your requirements for a SD would take priority.

I'm not too worried about trachea issues with a golden (as opposed to a toy breed), but I do have to be careful with G because she has a high pain tolerance and is stubborn as h#ll.

I didn't do any research on my own since I prefer G on a flat collar anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-14-2012, 11:48 PM
Greenmagick's Avatar
Greenmagick Greenmagick is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 3,061
Default

There was one article in particular I liked, but cant find it right now. I want to say it was in dog naturally.

But they talked about links to thyroid issues as well as just upping general reactivity and anxiousness. Then, depending on your beliefs of course, just wearing a collar in general is said to block the "chi" or energy flo.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-15-2012, 11:43 AM
SarahHound's Avatar
SarahHound SarahHound is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: North West Scotland
Posts: 3,120
Default

My Dad has that same way of thinking. He told me to get the choke chain out for Katy when she was 12 weeks old.

She's 9 months now, and if she does anything naughty, he says 'That's because you won't put a chain on her'. Now really, its crap. She can be doing something naughty, nothing to do with her neck, and apparently its all because she needs a choke chain on.
__________________

My Photos
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:27 AM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site