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Old 05-15-2012, 12:23 PM
Sweet72947's Avatar
Sweet72947 Sweet72947 is offline
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Location: Northern Virginia
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IMO most bites happen because people are stupid, and do stupid things. They are also ignorant of canine body language, and fail to see the more subtle signs such as whale eye, stiff body posture, ears back, lip-licking, etc. They also fail to see things in context. For example, at work in boarding there was a Bernese Mountain Dog boarding with a cute little black 'n white pit bull. The pit bull was all kinds of friendly, but the berner was extremely uncomfortable being in the kennel (and head shy, try to pat him and he would do the dodge). I saw a coworker with them in the yard and he was patting the berner and even kissing his face while the berner threw off all kinds of whale eye and a stiff body posture while licking his lips. I am surprised much of the time that dogs don't bite people MORE. Then take the borzoi that is boarding at work. He will also keep his ears flat against his head and lick his lips (his mouth is brown from drool), however he will lean against people for pets and comfort. The berner and the borzoi throw off some of the same "I'M UNCOMFORTABLE" signals, but the difference is the berner is terribly afraid of both humans and being in a new situation, while the borzoi is only stressed out because he's in a kennel away from home, but he is still a stable dog with people.

And I do know all too well that some dogs are just broken on the inside and cannot be fixed. I've met dogs like these. Heck Daisy is a dog like this. Her dam was friendly, and I was told her sire was a big happy stupid thing, but Daisy came out with a poor temperament. I remember when I met her 8 week old self at my friend's house. They brought her out and she didn't interact with us, she just sat there. And anyone who has met lab puppies knows that that is very uncharacteristic of the breed!
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:10 PM
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sillysally sillysally is offline
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Originally Posted by Miakoda View Post
If a dog bites a human just because a human happens to be within reaching difference, then that dog has a serious problem.

I've done a lot of rescue, specifically "pit bull" rescue. I've seen first-hand dogs that had absolutely zero socialization (including during "puppyhood"). I've experienced them look warily at humans. I've experienced them shy away from humans and show inherent submissive behavior. I've experienced a handful offer low rumbles and growls. But I have never seen one attempt to bite a human (or actually bite) just because such human was close enough to do so.

I've also seen dogs beaten to within an inch of their life. I've seen dogs tied to and dragged behind trucks. I've seen dogs stabbed. I've seen a dog severely starved and thrown into a neighbor's trash can while awaiting death. In none of those situations did the dog just bite a human just because.

I don't think anyone in this thread said that dogs don't have breaking points. Sure they do. Each dog is an individual, so each dog will have a different breaking point than another. And I do believe that different breeds, in general, have general breaking points as a whole. But, what I don't believe, is that dogs will bite "just because", and that such bites are ok because dogs are just dogs after all.

Stable dogs don't go around showing outward aggression to humans and attempting to bite them and/or biting them. They just don't. Make all the excuses in the world, but you aren't doing the humans nor the dog any favors.

As for the question of whether dogs are able to differentiate between humans and dogs, ummm, I firmly believe they do. I don't buy into the whole "we are their pack....Now WOOF I say! WOOF!" crap.

If my dogs can tell the difference between a cat and a squirrel, and a deer and a hog, and a bird and an armadillo, then they can most certainly understand that humans are not dogs.

As for the whole "bite inhibition" debate, it could be said that puppies are taught bite inhibition by dogs and humans alike. Humans teaching it isn't some only-case scenario.

Yes, I've seen dogs that were not trained very well, if even at all, and yes, they tended to be quite nippy. But that's how dogs also communicate. No one is denying it. However, those dogs didn't aggressively go after people and just bite the hell out of them for no reason. There is a difference between a nippy, interactive dog and a dog biting out of aggression.

Human aggression has no place in any breed whatsoever.

And if I wasn't clear, IMO, this dog needs to euthanized. That's what I would recommend, and that's sure as hell what I would've done...yesterday.
Excellent post.

~Christina--Mom to:
Sally--8 yr old pit bull mix
Jack--6 yr old Labrador
Sadie & Runt--12 yr old calico DSHs
Pickles & Kiwi--3 yr old white winged parakeets
Yoda--1 yr old Quaker parrot
Solo--12 yr old Senegal parrot
Sheena--Quarter Horse--3/24/86-6/23/11--Rest Easy Sweet Girl~

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Old 05-15-2012, 09:17 PM
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ihartgonzo ihartgonzo is offline
and Fozzie B!
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Originally Posted by SevenSins View Post
I agree with the above and I'll add my (very strong) opinion here. There is NO place in this world for a human-aggressive APBT/mix and frankly I don't think a single one is worth saving, not when there are multitudes of APBTs out there with rock-solid temperaments, some who have been wrung through all manners of hell and still wouldn't dream of laying tooth on a person. I'm not going to candy-coat; Based on the OP's description of the dog's temperament, that dog should have been dead a long time ago. Further, the OP failed that dog, and failed responsible APBT owners, by putting it in a situation that allowed it to bite someone, knowing the dog was aggressive. This dog is now a statistic that brings the rest of us one step closer to losing our dogs.
I agree with this.

What disturbs me the most is the fact that this dog isn't even 1 year old.... WOW. That's scary. He is still a puppy, and he's escaping and biting children, and trying to attack people on walks. The OP seems to be well-meaning but certainly doesn't have a good grasp on dog behavior or diligently preventing their dog from escaping or scaring people. I have to agree that, while a behavior evaluation should be done by a certified behaviorist, odds are that everyone (including this dog & all other Pit Bulls) would be safer if he was put down. This dog wasn't beaten, chased, or cornered... he didn't bite to defend himself. He escaped and bit a child so badly that they had to go to the hospital.

<3 Erica, Gonzo & Fozzie
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