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  #21  
Old 04-17-2012, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by elegy View Post
I won't argue that SG isn't a brilliant trainer, but ever since I read Ruff Love, she kinda gives me the heebs.

My vote goes to Denise Fenzi.
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  #22  
Old 04-18-2012, 09:31 AM
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I agree wholeheartedly with Ruff Love. It was recommended for me to do with Classic and I just couldn't do it. Mostly because great dane crates are huge. LOL

I would much rather have my dog earn real life rewards while living life. I got a dog to enjoy their company, can't do that while they are in the crate. Also, settling in the house is a big behavior for me, can't learn to settle in the house if they are expected to be in working mode the only time they are out of their crates.

Otherwise, I love Susan Garrett. She's even said in her blog a couple times that even though people think her dogs live in crates based on the Ruff Love book that it is just not true. She says that people read too much into the book and take it too literally, but she is the one who wrote it as a step by step program so I don't really understand her explanations.
I am another huge SG fan! I've been to her facility for seminars and am blown away by her training and the happiness of her dogs. (No, she doesn't lock them away so they are dying for interaction. )

In regards to Ruff Love, I think that most people underestimate the amount of time that she works/plays with her puppies. She isn't the average Joe that is gone to work all day then gets home and has to keep the puppy crated even more.

I was probably even more strict with Pan for the first few months of her life because she was an insane little beast that would never relax or sleep unless put away. Unless I was interacting or very directly supervising her, she was crated or in an ex-pen. However, between myself and my husband there was always someone home, so she was never crated alone for extended periods of time.

I also love what I've seen online of Silvia Trkman....her amazing light-hearted attitude towards training and openness to sharing her experiences and knowledge.
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  #23  
Old 04-18-2012, 09:50 AM
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My malinois are still xpenned or crated when not being at least moderately supervised. They're still annoying at 2 years old.

We're not however doing this for the reason people told me to do it to Arnold 5 years ago. He didn't have the drive I wanted from him so I was told by several trainers to just black box him, if I didn't see what I wanted from him immediately out of the crate he went right back in. Make him desperate to get out and interact, etc.

Bleh. There is a big difference between that and plain old safety.
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  #24  
Old 04-18-2012, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
My malinois are still xpenned or crated when not being at least moderately supervised. They're still annoying at 2 years old.

We're not however doing this for the reason people told me to do it to Arnold 5 years ago. He didn't have the drive I wanted from him so I was told by several trainers to just black box him, if I didn't see what I wanted from him immediately out of the crate he went right back in. Make him desperate to get out and interact, etc.

Bleh. There is a big difference between that and plain old safety.
Heheh, Pan is still crated a lot as well. If I'm home she's usually loose now, but is always crated if I'm gone and she sleeps in her crate at night, or if she's being a general pain in the ass.

I think that's where the big misunderstanding of Ruff Love comes in. It's not meant as a black box program, it's using the crate as a means to control reinforcers while the pup/dog learns acceptable ways to interact with the owner/environment.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:14 AM
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Yeah, that makes much more sense. I never read the book so I can't really speak on it but I understand where the confusion can come from.
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  #26  
Old 04-22-2012, 06:42 PM
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I'm not sure I'd say Idol but Silvia Trkman is certainly my favorite trainer that I know about. I really like Denise Fenzi too and I think she's doing great things for competition obedience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
I think SG is fabulous
And she'll tell you so herself

No really, I do think she's a good trainer and I enjoy reading a lot of her stuff. Her personality and general tone just don't mesh with me. I don't think I'd get along with her if she was just some random local dog person that I knew, plus she's just too strict and systematic for me. That doesn't mean I don't pick things up reading her stuff though. It's like a...I like her but I don't like her sort of thing LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzerotti View Post
I think that's where the big misunderstanding of Ruff Love comes in. It's not meant as a black box program, it's using the crate as a means to control reinforcers while the pup/dog learns acceptable ways to interact with the owner/environment.
Yeah this about sums it up. Although, I can see how it can turn into an isolation training situation with people who work full time and don't have the sort of dedication the program requires. Yes you confine your dog when you can't supervise but I think there is an assumption that you're going to be working with your dog throughout the day and providing plenty of exercise.

I've read Ruff Love several times. I think some people do have a bit of an...emotional response to it. I do think it can give the wrong idea, even though she does say in the book that it is not intended to be an isolation program but a means for you to prevent your dog from practicing bad behaviors. Truth be told, I know very few people who would have the dedication to follow this program to the letter because it is hard, especially if you have multiple dogs.

I have heard from several people who say they have set up by SG, camped near her at trials, etc and all said her dogs are very well rounded and allowed far more freedom than most people's dogs in those settings (like they are almost never on leash, go to their crates or expens when asked and stay until re;leased, etc).
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  #27  
Old 04-23-2012, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron View Post

Yeah this about sums it up. Although, I can see how it can turn into an isolation training situation with people who work full time and don't have the sort of dedication the program requires. Yes you confine your dog when you can't supervise but I think there is an assumption that you're going to be working with your dog throughout the day and providing plenty of exercise.

I've read Ruff Love several times. I think some people do have a bit of an...emotional response to it. I do think it can give the wrong idea, even though she does say in the book that it is not intended to be an isolation program but a means for you to prevent your dog from practicing bad behaviors. Truth be told, I know very few people who would have the dedication to follow this program to the letter because it is hard, especially if you have multiple dogs.

I have heard from several people who say they have set up by SG, camped near her at trials, etc and all said her dogs are very well rounded and allowed far more freedom than most people's dogs in those settings (like they are almost never on leash, go to their crates or expens when asked and stay until re;leased, etc).
I agree with Pan and this ^^^. I had a knee jerk reaction to the book as well when it first came out. I have also done Recallers, much better but based on a lot of the material in Ruff Love. I think the biggest problem is SG assumed that ppl could read between the lines and she didn't break it down enough.

I have camped beside her as well, dogs absolutely had more freedom than most well trained dogs in that situation. Anyone that has met her, knows that her skills and relationships with her dogs are very high..........her people skills no so much lol. I know someone that has spent a lot of time in her home, her dogs are not crated all the time.

I also agree with the statement that she does spend a lot of time with her dogs, therefore it could make it hard for someone to apply a lot of it, if they work all day etc. But not impossible, remember training is about thinking outside of the box.

I do believe it is a bit of a trade off, do the Recallers with a lot of RL exercises for a few weeks. The rules are simple and black and white. In the end have a dog that has more freedom than the average dog could ever dream of. Then everyone is happy and life goes on.

I would recommend that anyone that has the book to do the ecourse Recallers the next time it is offered. Gives a much better perspective of what RL really is and fills in those blanks Or to those that haven't read the book yet.

As for marketing, yes that has happened, but I would rather give my money to someone like her that doesn't cause harm over CM. Having done Recallers.......you are always getting free stuff, discounts and FREE ecourses from her..........not that bad of a deal for a one time payment and a lot of excellent information.
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  #28  
Old 04-23-2012, 03:21 PM
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Another vote for Emily (Kikopup) here, and Denise Fenzi, and SG - like 'em all

I'm currently obsessed with Forrest Micke. I just love the connection he has with his dogs.
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  #29  
Old 04-23-2012, 03:40 PM
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Forrest is actually a good friend of mine though I don't get to see him much anymore.

oh, and all the ladies seem to be obsessed with Forrest
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  #30  
Old 04-23-2012, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
Forrest is actually a good friend of mine though I don't get to see him much anymore.

oh, and all the ladies seem to be obsessed with Forrest
LOL yes. Hes definitely easy on the eyes.

But seriously - how cool is this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ibX...t1tOw0cdjs36E=

And this? He IS the reward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU0Y...1d2DCGD32t2eQ=

Its stuff like this though that got me hooked. Watching the progression and how he works things out - love it. I could watch all day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A8e...JLIUz_8Mp5ll8=
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