Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Forum News > The Fire Hydrant


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 04-13-2012, 01:11 AM
darkchild16's Avatar
darkchild16 darkchild16 is offline
We are Home.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Tallahassee Florida
Posts: 21,814
Default

Its up to the mother and her doctor pure and simple. No one else has the right to impose their beliefs on another. Its not what you believe fine but just because its what you believe doesnt mean you have the right to govern that in EVERY womans case. If anyone told me what to do with my baby they would no longer be my friend but thats just me. IMO if you cant support your friends/family in their time of need whether you believe in it or not then you arent a true friend. My friends have done some pretty ****ed up things but I still stood by when they needed me the most whether I agreed with it or not. Suggesting a alternative is something totally different to me. Suggest it once and if it isnt taken you support the road they took and help in any way you can as long as it is not criminal. Abortion should NOT be criminal either.
__________________

Advice, most needed, is least heeded- Fortune Cookie



Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04-13-2012, 01:17 AM
Lyzelle's Avatar
Lyzelle Lyzelle is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,699
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue View Post
Sweet Zombie Jesus. I put adoption as an option not an absolute. I can completely understand if a woman cant carry to term for health reasons.

My older brother was a zero growth advocate for many years. I flat asked him what he would do if he knocked up his GF at the time. His response, "We are Liberals, she will have an abortion". That zero population growth advocate made me an Uncle last year.

Adoption would be easier and cheaper, if abortion was harder and more expensive.

Personally the human race sickens me more every day and the zombie apocalypse cant come soon enough.
I wasn't arguing against adoption or attacking you, so I promise you can calm down. I was explaining why for many, it wouldn't be an option, or why it isn't a widely used option. Not to mention not every raped 15 year old girl wants to go through pregnancy and birth, only to give the child away and start a "real" family with "wanted kids" when she's good and ready at 25-30.

I was just pointing out that adoption can be a risky, super specific case-by-case thing, that's all.

And considering the overpopulation of humans we already have, I don't see how adoption would be made any easier if we truly stretched the country to the limits of how many unsupported children to feed and care for. That makes about as much sense as, "If we keep BYBing dogs, everyone would adopt more because we'd be dropping them all off at shelters!" I don't get it at all.

And abortion, for those who truly want it, will always be there. It's been around since the beginning of time, and it will continue to be here for a long time after it's banned. Where there is a will, there is a way. Law doesn't stop abortion, it just starts hacksaw back alleys.
__________________
Zander and HarleyQuinn
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-13-2012, 01:36 AM
blue's Avatar
blue blue is offline
Jerk.
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: wasilla alaska
Posts: 10,088
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyzelle View Post
I wasn't arguing against adoption or attacking you, so I promise you can calm down. I was explaining why for many, it wouldn't be an option, or why it isn't a widely used option. Not to mention not every raped 15 year old girl wants to go through pregnancy and birth, only to give the child away and start a "real" family with "wanted kids" when she's good and ready at 25-30.

I was just pointing out that adoption can be a risky, super specific case-by-case thing, that's all.

And considering the overpopulation of humans we already have, I don't see how adoption would be made any easier if we truly stretched the country to the limits of how many unsupported children to feed and care for. That makes about as much sense as, "If we keep BYBing dogs, everyone would adopt more because we'd be dropping them all off at shelters!" I don't get it at all.

And abortion, for those who truly want it, will always be there. It's been around since the beginning of time, and it will continue to be here for a long time after it's banned. Where there is a will, there is a way. Law doesn't stop abortion, it just starts hacksaw back alleys.
With this topic I can remain more then calm. I cant wait for the zombies to over run us, we are so close already. We will be even closer if Obama is re elected. Make adoption cheaper and abortion more expensive and your point is moot. If a 15 year old is raped and became pregnant there should be a second death if there is an abortion. I have no humanity when it comes to pedophiles, rapists, or predators in general.

We should have been over populated the year after my birth in 1975. We have so much production and room over population is a liberal scare tactic. Its so much BS my zero population growth brother made me an uncle.

Back alley abortions? At least here in the USA, is alive and well. Making abortion legal didnt end that atrocity.
__________________
I SSH'ed into Mordor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
Sometimes BOTH sides are just full of sh1t.
AKpostal
Blog?
MyDrunkAdmin
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 04-13-2012, 02:45 AM
~Tucker&Me~ ~Tucker&Me~ is offline
and Spy.
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: B.C.
Posts: 4,940
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue View Post
Make adoption cheaper and abortion more expensive and your point is moot.
How is it moot? Your point didn't make sense, please elaborate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue View Post
We should have been over populated the year after my birth in 1975. We have so much production and room over population is a liberal scare tactic.
No, it's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue View Post
Back alley abortions? At least here in the USA, is alive and well. Making abortion legal didnt end that atrocity.
No it didn't, but some of the back-alleyers were now provided with proper medical care and given the support they need as opposed to risking death, infection, infertility and all the other negative consequences that can come with back alley abortions.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryMan View Post
I think u need some angry school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
That's what we do here. We're emotionally invested in each other and each other's dogs, the joys and the sorrows.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 04-13-2012, 07:34 AM
Danefied's Avatar
Danefied Danefied is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Southeast
Posts: 1,722
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M's Mommy View Post
I'm also pro-choice. The baby's choice to live
Does that mean you believe in right to die? You know, Dr. Kevorkian stuff?

And guys, I believe Blue is being deliberately ridiculous - arguments punctuated by welcoming the impending zombie apocalypse are not meant to be taken seriously
__________________
"We become better trainers by refusing to swallow uncritically what is tossed to us as truth,
by developing our powers of empathy and observation,
and by searching for better ways to teach and educate the dogs we love."
~Suzanne Clothier
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 04-13-2012, 07:55 AM
sillysally's Avatar
sillysally sillysally is offline
Obey the Toad.
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: A hole in the bottom of the sea.
Posts: 5,003
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyzelle View Post
As far as "baby's choice" I highly doubt the soul of an innocent child wants to be born in anything less than ideal conditions where it will be loved, nurtured, and wanted. I'm not of the belief that just because the baby wasn't born, that it died. The body, the physical mass, yes. But not the soul. That lives on until it is truly born.

But does that mean I'm going to force that belief on other people? No, of course not.

Pro-Choice rarely ever means Pro-Abortion. Like I said before, and many others here have also said, it simply means the ability for the woman to make a choice regarding her body. And sometimes, that choice is far better than the alternative. Pro-Choice is most certainly Pro-Life in it's own way. I know very few pro-choice people who would want a child born into less than ideal circumstances, or instances where the child will not be loved or wanted.

But, really, at the end of the day, it's not a single person's business except the woman, her significant other, and her doctor. Period.
And what, pray tell, are ideal circumstances? Who decides that? Marital status of mom, income, etc? If "ideal circumstances" were a requirement to be born there are many if us who would not be here......
__________________

~Christina--Mom to:
Sally--8 yr old pit bull mix
Jack--6 yr old Labrador
Sadie & Runt--12 yr old calico DSHs
Pickles & Kiwi--3 yr old white winged parakeets
Yoda--1 yr old Quaker parrot
Solo--12 yr old Senegal parrot
Sheena--Quarter Horse--3/24/86-6/23/11--Rest Easy Sweet Girl~




Labs do it in the lake.


Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:09 AM
sassafras's Avatar
sassafras sassafras is offline
such sights to show you
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 5,650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M's Mommy View Post
I kinda understand the reasons someone can be "pro-choice" (of abortion) if he/she thinks an unborn fetus is just a mass of cells & not really a human... then of course, he/she has no problems with abortion... (When life really begins is another can of worms I don't want to re-open!)
But you HAVE to open that can of worms. Really most of the debate about the rightness or wrongness of having abortion on the table as a choice always seems to boil down to some combination of: 1. Is that fetus (or mass of cells if you will) a person, 2. When does that fetus become a person, 3. If and when that fetus is a person, whose rights get more weight in a decision about abortion?

It HAS to be part of the discussion because that's what the decision rests on. Unfortunately those are questions that I don't think there will ever be any kind of consensus on because they come down to beliefs and strong emotions, often religious beliefs. And as long as there is a lack of consensus on the very definitions of what you're trying to legislate, you HAVE to err on the side of keeping the government out of it IMO, because "I know it when I see it" might be fine for art but it's no way to make laws.

For me this is what the crux of the whole abortion debate comes down to - not how *I* feel about fetuses, but how on earth do we make a law about something that we can't as a society even agree on the definition of? When you've got people who truly believe it is just a mass of cells and people who truly believe it is a full person with rights equal to a grown adult and people who believe everything in between... and it's not like 99.99% of people believe one thing and there's that one guy who believes something else... there is basically NO majority belief or general consensus. So it doesn't make any sense to start flinging laws around.

Quote:
I'm pro-choice, too - when the choices are to say what you want (freedom of speech), choose what faith/religion you believe in (freedom of religions), or a millions other things...
I thought, by your own argument, that if someone REALLY believed in something, they wouldn't be ok with other people making different choices? Because honestly, the major religions are all pretty clear that "ours is the one true god" and prescribe witnessing as a responsibility.

Now - I realize this was a tricky example to use and I'm not trying to pick on anyone's religion... it isn't meant to turn the discussion to religion in general, I'm just using your own example my own example of how we all make decisions about right or wrong in context every day. Generally I think murder is wrong, but I think murder in self defense is justified. My religious beliefs are right for me, but not for everyone. Little white lies. A million tiny decisions like this every day. So honestly I don't see how your "but if you REALLY believe abortion is wrong for you, then you can't be pro-choice for anyone else" argument can hold up when you yourself are contradicting it in your own words.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:16 AM
stardogs stardogs is offline
Behavior Nerd
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 4,493
Default

Just for clarity's sake, I interpret "pro abortion" as actively promoting abortion as the best solution to unwanted pregnancy. As "pro-choice" I don't believe that any of the options are "better" than the rest but rather that it, again, is a choice that must be made by the individual based on their needs, beliefs, and current circumstance.
__________________
Erin, Ziva, Kestrel, Aerten, and Snipe
Always in our hearts: The Amazing Maggie Mae


Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:22 AM
sassafras's Avatar
sassafras sassafras is offline
such sights to show you
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 5,650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stardogs View Post
Just for clarity's sake, I interpret "pro abortion" as actively promoting abortion as the best solution to unwanted pregnancy. As "pro-choice" I don't believe that any of the options are "better" than the rest but rather that it, again, is a choice that must be made by the individual based on their needs, beliefs, and current circumstance.
I do as well. Because if we're going to split hairs, then people who oppose abortion but support the death penalty don't get to use "pro-life", either. At the end of the day using the term "pro-abortion" is just a deflective tactic IMO.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:35 AM
sparks19's Avatar
sparks19 sparks19 is offline
I'd rather be at Disney
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 28,306
Default

I think everyone knows how I feel about this.

We didn't know it at the time but it turns out at 11 weeks hannah was already developing "habits" in the womb. My 11 week ultrasound she had her right hand up by her face. Next ultrasound... same deal. when she was born, anytime she was swaddled she had to get that right hand up and out to put it by her face. whens he was in the NICU they had to move her IV out of her hand because she insisted on having that hand up by her face instead of taped down to a stiff board. No matter how much tape they used they could NOT keep that hand in place. she was persistant lol.

She may not have been able to survive out of the womb yet at 11 weeks but she was most certainly her own person by then and not just a mass of cells.

medical nessecity, OK. 20 week abortions just because... No I can't support that. especially when we have the technology where 23 week preemies actually stand a pretty decent chance at survival. We had a wee little guy next to us in the NICU that was a 23 weeker. cutest teeniest little guy you've ever seen with SO much black hair. he looked like a little spider monkey. adorable. he left the hospital before his actual due date. Now he's a healthy, normal, rambunctious boy lol.

As long as it's legal... do whatever you want but I won't be able to stand in support of it just because "it's your choice". sometimes peoples choices SUCK lol

In the case of the OP story, it just didnt' make any sense. The baby was not going to survive... period. so there shouldn't have been a question about whether to deliver or not. the questionnaire should be "what percentage chance does the baby have of surviving to term? 90% or less... they should have the right to terminate" I don't even know that they were really asking for an abortion, they asked for labor to be induced and let nature take it's course. that's not even what abortion is.
__________________
Quote:

“Meaninglessness does not come from being weary of pain. Meaninglessness comes from being weary of pleasure.”


G.K. Chesterton
“Family fun is as necessary to modern living as a kitchen refrigerator.” – Walt Disney






Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:44 AM.


©1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site