Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Forum News > The Fire Hydrant


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 04-12-2012, 10:21 PM
Lyzelle's Avatar
Lyzelle Lyzelle is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,671
Default

As far as "baby's choice" I highly doubt the soul of an innocent child wants to be born in anything less than ideal conditions where it will be loved, nurtured, and wanted. I'm not of the belief that just because the baby wasn't born, that it died. The body, the physical mass, yes. But not the soul. That lives on until it is truly born.

But does that mean I'm going to force that belief on other people? No, of course not.

Pro-Choice rarely ever means Pro-Abortion. Like I said before, and many others here have also said, it simply means the ability for the woman to make a choice regarding her body. And sometimes, that choice is far better than the alternative. Pro-Choice is most certainly Pro-Life in it's own way. I know very few pro-choice people who would want a child born into less than ideal circumstances, or instances where the child will not be loved or wanted.

But, really, at the end of the day, it's not a single person's business except the woman, her significant other, and her doctor. Period.
__________________
Zander and HarleyQuinn
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-12-2012, 10:30 PM
sassafras's Avatar
sassafras sassafras is offline
such sights to show you
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 5,529
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai View Post
Speaking for myself, it has nothing to do with trying to not offend, and everything to do with recognizing that what is right for me is not right for everyone.
This... I DO have stand up for my belief - my belief that, as Shai says, what is right for me is not right for everyone. Heck, what is right for me in one context might not be right for me in another context.

Also, that there is no objective definition or agreement of when "personhood" begins. I know I don't believe it begins at conception. I know I do believe it happens well before birth. But where exactly is it? What week of pregnancy? I don't know. And nobody else does, either, and basing laws on something that is too slippery to even be legally defined is bad juju IMO.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-12-2012, 11:04 PM
M&M's Mommy's Avatar
M&M's Mommy M&M's Mommy is offline
Owned by 3 mutts
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Golden State
Posts: 4,295
Default

How is "pro-choice" different than "pro-abortion" when the "choice" in this very context means "abort/terminate/end the pregnancy which directly results in the baby' death, which means abortion?. How can those who think life is precious and begins at conception renders their support (pro) to the killing of that very life? I may be frown upon, but I have the feeling it is just the play of words, somehow the word "pro-choice" lightens the situation and makes one feel better/more justified than "pro-abortion?"

I kinda understand the reasons someone can be "pro-choice" (of abortion) if he/she thinks an unborn fetus is just a mass of cells & not really a human... then of course, he/she has no problems with abortion... (When life really begins is another can of worms I don't want to re-open!)

I'm pro-choice, too - when the choices are to say what you want (freedom of speech), choose what faith/religion you believe in (freedom of religions), or a millions other things - but even these freedom have limitations, i.e, freedom of speech doesn't mean one can yell "Fire!" in a crowed theater, and freedom of religion doesn't mean you can kill/harass others who don't share your belief in the name of your religion, etc... True freedom doesn't mean one can do whatever he wants whenever he wants it, let alone when what he wants costs the life of other!

Also, everyday everybody makes tons of choices. Some are good, and some are bad. Aren't rules neccessary to prevent/punish those who make bad choices?. Murder, rape, stealing, lying, etc.. are all choices, aren't they?
__________________

Thanks~Jessie~

I believe in the Sun, even when it's not shinning
I believe in Love, even when not feeling it

I believe in God, even when He's silent.

Last edited by M&M's Mommy; 04-12-2012 at 11:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-12-2012, 11:46 PM
Xandra's Avatar
Xandra Xandra is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,785
Default

Pro-choice really does mean CHOICE... to get an abortion or to not get one. I mean, if someone wanted to forgo treatment to ensure their fetus' survival (I believe an article of a pregnant teenage girl who did so was posted a while back), vs getting an abortion and saving themselves, that's their CHOICE. Honestly, doing that doesn't sit well with me, personally, just like many many abortions don't. But those are just my inklings. It's their choice... to abort yes, or to not.

I don't think a label of "pro abortion" fits me well, just because in some cases I think it is the best option. I get what you're saying... if I think it's wrong than I should be consistent and say it is wrong, period. But to me it's just not clear enough... at 7 months yes, it's wrong, no abortions unless the woman's life depends on it. But at 2 months, I find that blurry. I would err on the safe side and say no for me, but for anyone else, they can figure it out for themselves. I am not confident enough in my judgment to so "NO WRONG." And it isn't because I don't want to offend... it's because I'm trying to be fair... I don't think my reasons for personally saying "no" at 2 months are sound enough to force on everyone else.

I do believe the issue boils down to personhood. If a fetus is a person/baby, then it doesn't matter if it's "wanted" or not, we can't make those choices for it anymore than we can for a baby. I don't think a zygote is a person... no way. But when you start getting brainwaves... a beating heart, eyes, fingernails all that jazz... sometime in utero a fetus becomes a person.

Of course like Dakotah said... that's just what I'm saying now... I've never been pregnant, much less by a rapist. But that's my basic opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-12-2012, 11:59 PM
Kat09Tails's Avatar
Kat09Tails Kat09Tails is offline
*Now with Snark*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Upper Left hand corner, USA
Posts: 3,335
Default

I'm pro - choice. I have never met anyone who has had an abortion that wasn't deeply affected by that decision, just as I have never met anyone who has put up a baby for adoption that wasn't deeply affected by that decision, and certainly having and keeping a baby is a big choice as well. Personally if and when I have a kid I want the choice available - not that I plan on taking it but as a plan B if something should go horribly awry.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-13-2012, 12:04 AM
puppydog's Avatar
puppydog puppydog is offline
Tru evil has no pantyline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,498
Default

A bunch of cells has no choice in anything in my opinion.
__________________


Run free my special angel. I love you and will miss you forever more. You touched everyone with your light.

Abusive ground RAW feeder since 2009

Blog---> http://bananarepublic-ct.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-13-2012, 12:28 AM
SizzleDog SizzleDog is offline
Lord Cynical
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,321
Default

If my mother came to me today and said she'd thought about ending the pregnancy (and thus ending my life before it even began), it wouldn't make me mad at all. It would have been her decision to make. And if I'd had a choice in the matter, as a fetus.... if my mother had wanted abort, knowing she would not give me a good life... I would choose to let her do as she wished. Choice isn't absolute - some choose differently than others. There is no way to prove that every fetus would choose to be born, if given that chance to choose. I just can't buy that "reason" to outlaw abortion.

I'm sure people will disagree with me, and that's fine.
__________________



Morado Dobermans... and Talla the Mexidog too! (group photo pending)
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-13-2012, 12:45 AM
blue's Avatar
blue blue is offline
Jerk.
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: wasilla alaska
Posts: 10,088
Default

I have many friends who where adopted at birth. If you dont want to be responsible for your actions, death is not the only option.
__________________
I SSH'ed into Mordor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
Sometimes BOTH sides are just full of sh1t.
AKpostal
Blog?
MyDrunkAdmin
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-13-2012, 12:51 AM
Lyzelle's Avatar
Lyzelle Lyzelle is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,671
Default

Adoption is really a specific case thing. There are plenty of people who don't want to pass on their genes, period, and women can have health reasons for why they cannot carry a child to term. There is also the simple idea that some people don't want to bring more life into this world.

Not to mention, adoption is getting increasingly harder for parents to be unless you have a couple thousand and look like a God - minus the Old Testament violence.
__________________
Zander and HarleyQuinn
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-13-2012, 01:02 AM
blue's Avatar
blue blue is offline
Jerk.
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: wasilla alaska
Posts: 10,088
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyzelle View Post
Adoption is really a specific case thing. There are plenty of people who don't want to pass on their genes, period, and women can have health reasons for why they cannot carry a child to term. There is also the simple idea that some people don't want to bring more life into this world.

Not to mention, adoption is getting increasingly harder for parents to be unless you have a couple thousand and look like a God - minus the Old Testament violence.
Sweet Zombie Jesus. I put adoption as an option not an absolute. I can completely understand if a woman cant carry to term for health reasons.

My older brother was a zero growth advocate for many years. I flat asked him what he would do if he knocked up his GF at the time. His response, "We are Liberals, she will have an abortion". That zero population growth advocate made me an Uncle last year.

Adoption would be easier and cheaper, if abortion was harder and more expensive.

Personally the human race sickens me more every day and the zombie apocalypse cant come soon enough.
__________________
I SSH'ed into Mordor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
Sometimes BOTH sides are just full of sh1t.
AKpostal
Blog?
MyDrunkAdmin
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:34 AM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site