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  #21  
Old 03-30-2012, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by LauraLeigh View Post
Thing is.... I don't want anything extra... I want the pension I contribute to, at the same age my parents received it...

There are some mathmatecians out there proving that sure the burdens a bit higher for the years the baby boomers retire, but will end up being leveled out when that generation is, ummm, gone... Then there will be far more paying in than collecting...

I just find it horribly offensive the amount of abusive of services while hard working people pay into their pension, as well as the taxes that support the abusers... And get shafted!!!
I didn't mean you getting anything extra or individuals who have put into the system all their lives. I meant society wanting the government to pay for every social service, every person who hasn't put into the system ever in their lives. With the exception of certain people who honestly can not support themselves due to real disbilities etc, I think people want too much. And all the bueurocracy costs money...lots of money. And all the dishonest, corrupt politicians, all their voting themselves raises, all the perks. They have so many entitlements that no other citizen has. Yes, as long as they are allowed to do that, we will fall.
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  #22  
Old 03-30-2012, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Puckstop31;1965356[B
]"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."[/B]
Benjamin Franklin

He wasn't being prophetic there either, he just read a history book or two. It happened to Rome and it is going to happen to modern Western society. It does not have to, but it will. Stopping it will require politicians with the guts to say NO.

I do not believe VERY strongly in absolute minimal government intrusion (some call it "help") into ours lives because I am mean and want people to suffer. Quite the opposite is true.

Did you mean you do believe very strongly in absolute minimal government intrusion?



Benjamin was absolutely positively right.
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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

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  #23  
Old 03-30-2012, 03:43 PM
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LauraLeigh LauraLeigh is offline
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Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
I didn't mean you getting anything extra or individuals who have put into the system all their lives. I meant society wanting the government to pay for every social service, every person who hasn't put into the system ever in their lives. With the exception of certain people who honestly can not support themselves due to real disbilities etc, I think people want too much. And all the bueurocracy costs money...lots of money. And all the dishonest, corrupt politicians, all their voting themselves raises, all the perks. They have so many entitlements that no other citizen has. Yes, as long as they are allowed to do that, we will fall.
Ahhhhh LOL

Forgive me, we are on the exact same wave length then!!
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  #24  
Old 03-30-2012, 03:46 PM
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I'm not that good at expressing myself sometimes.
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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

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  #25  
Old 03-30-2012, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
They raised it here a while back too, they're talking about raising it again... I don't see how I'll ever be able to retire. I'm already going to be pretty much living paycheck to paycheck. There's really nothing left to invest, especially since the safest investments require a large minimum to get started...
I'm basically counting on an early death to help me out. =P
I missed your pist somehow....

I understand, it's scary..... And I have this huge fear of dropping dead at m retirement party!!!!
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  #26  
Old 03-30-2012, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LauraLeigh View Post
Had this as an edit, decided to make a new post do it would not get lost...

Nicole,

And we'll have to agree to disagree that 50% on the system truly need it...

Hub and I were married at 17/18 and had two babies by 18/19...

We struggled, we searched under cushions for milk money, we did menial jobs for little pay to supplement our income, we lived in a 600 square foot home with two kids that we owned, because it was what we could afford to own and heat...

We dug, scratched and clawed our way to a better life... Never once doing what so many others in our position did, turn to the government for help....

We are not special, anyone able bodied, willing to work **** hard and be poor as hell for a while could do the same...

Was it easy? While watching others get more money, more benefits, and far better housing on the government dime? Not at all...

Was it worth it? Hell yes!!!
Not everyone on SS is there because of laziness. Many are. Yes I will agree with that. But many are on it because of things that happened out of their control. Job loss, spouse death, illness, disability and so on. Just as it makes you angry to assume that most on it are milking the system, it also angers many that are honestly on it to be judge and condemed as lazy and so on simply becuase they hit hard times or have a disability or so on. It is such a broad brush and assumption to think that most are there to milk it. I will agree to disagree with you on it in that regaurds. SS should be a leg up and not a permanant solution. But it does very little, other to hand out checks, to help people off it and that is what really angers me about it.

It is a catch 22. Say a person named Jones had a good career and then the recession came. They have a family of 3 kids and a wife who also works. Suddenly they both or one loses a job. Now they have no income. They both look for work. Not enough jobs for so many people. Not even fast food jobs or being told they are over qualified. Nothing. They spend through their savings over a year trying to find work. Selling off what they can and going down to the bare basics. Finally they have to suck in their pride and ask for help. They get not even enough to cover the basics. THey continue to look for jobs while being judge for needing help. THey finally find some part time work and as soon as they are working they are kicked off even after it shows they bring in about half of what SS covered which agian didn't cover basics to begin with. There is no time delay. The day they started to work(though the first paycheck they recieved would not be for 2 weeks to a month) is when they get cut off. Which means they might not be able to pay rent, gas to get to work, groceries or so on. See this is the problem. It is not designed for people to get off of it and it should be.

All the people I know on it would have loved to be doing something, anything while on it. Teach them a trade, give them jobs in exchange for the ss funds, give them mandatory education for jobs while on it and so on. The SS system needs a complete overhaul to fix the issues.
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  #27  
Old 03-30-2012, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by NicoleLJ View Post
Not everyone on SS is there because of laziness. Many are. Yes I will agree with that. But many are on it because of things that happened out of their control. Job loss, spouse death, illness, disability and so on. Just as it makes you angry to assume that most on it are milking the system, it also angers many that are honestly on it to be judge and condemed as lazy and so on simply becuase they hit hard times or have a disability or so on. It is such a broad brush and assumption to think that most are there to milk it. I will agree to disagree with you on it in that regaurds. SS should be a leg up and not a permanant solution. But it does very little, other to hand out checks, to help people off it and that is what really angers me about it.

It is a catch 22. Say a person named Jones had a good career and then the recession came. They have a family of 3 kids and a wife who also works. Suddenly they both or one loses a job. Now they have no income. They both look for work. Not enough jobs for so many people. Not even fast food jobs or being told they are over qualified. Nothing. They spend through their savings over a year trying to find work. Selling off what they can and going down to the bare basics. Finally they have to suck in their pride and ask for help. They get not even enough to cover the basics. THey continue to look for jobs while being judge for needing help. THey finally find some part time work and as soon as they are working they are kicked off even after it shows they bring in about half of what SS covered which agian didn't cover basics to begin with. There is no time delay. The day they started to work(though the first paycheck they recieved would not be for 2 weeks to a month) is when they get cut off. Which means they might not be able to pay rent, gas to get to work, groceries or so on. See this is the problem. It is not designed for people to get off of it and it should be.

All the people I know on it would have loved to be doing something, anything while on it. Teach them a trade, give them jobs in exchange for the ss funds, give them mandatory education for jobs while on it and so on. The SS system needs a complete overhaul to fix the issues.
I have NO issue with those who truly are disabled or can't work... I am NOT nor once did I say they were lazy...

I am torn on paying to teach trades, too many horrible stories of people in school just to take up space (EI is famous for this, extend benefits if you go to school)

Jeff put himself through trade school while supporting a family, it can be done... It takes an incredible amount of sacrifice but it canbe done..
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  #28  
Old 03-30-2012, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Psyfalcon View Post
Just because you don't like it does not mean its a scam. A Ponzi scheme is a scam. Everything here is spelled out in excruciating detail.

Its funded for quite some time, though it will have issues if the population starts dropping. We can counter that with immigration if so many people would stop crying about that.

"The amount of the monthly benefit to which the worker is entitled depends upon that earnings record and upon the age at which the retiree chooses to begin receiving benefits. "

You get back, what you pay in, I can't see how some mythical entitlement mentality is going to change that.
ALL of this would be fine.... If there was an actual "fund", seperate from the rest of the budget for Social Security.

But, there is not. They take that money and spend it and put an IOU in its place. Now factor in we spend about a TRILLION dollars a year more than we take in. You can't live on credit cards forever, neither can a Government.

Perhaps you are right. Perhaps all these immigrants will actually produce. I am not betting on that.

Social Security, as it is today, is a LIE. Especially if you are 45 or younger and work.
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  #29  
Old 03-30-2012, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
Did you mean you do believe very strongly in absolute minimal government intrusion?



Benjamin was absolutely positively right.


Yes. Me fail English? That's unpossible. LOL
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R.I.P my beloved Teddy, my "squishy monster". You will never be forgotten.
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  #30  
Old 03-30-2012, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NicoleLJ View Post
This was the point I was trying to make you just said it better. Which is why having a seperate pension plan to go with the CPP is something that should be a priority.

LauraLeigh - It sounds like you are really angry about the social services programs then about Cpp. I think Social Services needs to be set up differently. BUT I do disagree that only a small percentage of the people on it actually need it. I would think it would be closer to 50% or more that are honestly on it. But it is also set up that when honest people have to use it then it is almost impossible to get off of it for many reasons. Do people abuse it? Yup. But the people I know that have had to use it all say the same thing. They make it almost imposible to get a job and get off it.
I agree, like the people who are on it and then import expensive breeds of dogs from Europe.

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