German Shepherd through the years

[Whisper]

Originally Posted by Aleron

IMO There's really nothing wrong with the GSDCA (AKC) GSD standard. Do the dogs winning fit it to a T? Decide for yourself:

http://www.gsdca.org/Noframes/standard/IllStan1.htm

Oh, wow. Let me rephrase what I said. "Just because a dog gains it's Ch. doesn't mean it's not poorly bred."

How can those dogs who look like they can't even walk be winning when the standard calls for a non-extreme body like that?

[Maliraptor]

Originally Posted by CharlieDog

That is pretty awesome. I've never seen a mal sabled like that, or her sire, but I could see how those two coats could produce that. Gorgeous dog for sure.

Thank you. She's a bit of an anomaly, really. Is she a throwback or is there a GSD lurking in the woodpile? As long as she works well and has good health, my requirements are met either way.

[Maliraptor]

Originally Posted by Aleron

IMO There's really nothing wrong with the GSDCA (AKC) GSD standard. Do the dogs winning fit it to a T? Decide for yourself:

http://www.gsdca.org/Noframes/standard/IllStan1.htm

Exactly. As usual, it comes down to individual breeder's interpretation of the standard.

I showed and bred American GSDs years ago. And while I thought at the time the dogs I finished were balanced and moderate, looking back, I'm not so sure. And I LOST a lot because my dogs did not have the necessary angulation in the rear to win, even in the all breed ring.

[Equinox]

Originally Posted by Whisper

Wow, I actually wasn't flamed for saying I'd rather have a BYB GSD than an American show line GSD.
Of course BYB GSDs as a broad brush stroke don't follow any standard and they may be in worse health, but in general, I find the less extreme look much more pleasing to the eye and IME healthier.
The AKC needs to adjust their stack just a bit or something- it makes them look that much worse.
My opinion is that just because a dog fits the standard to a "T" doesn't mean it's not poorly bred.

Here is my dog stacked three point


Here is an Irish Setter stacked four square


Many breeds that are stacked four square still have excessive rear, either as a by product or a direct goal of breeding. Not sure if changing the way a dog is stacked in the conformation ring will change that. Additionally, it is not just the AKC. The UKC, CKC, KC, and SV all require the German Shepherd be stacked the same. Different fads between the European and American showlines? Yes, definitely, but the dogs are still stacked three point.

[Whisper]

Trent looks completely normal and gorgeous. He just look like he's stacked three point, whereas GSDs with such sloped rears that are stacked that way just look so much worse. I don't truly expect that people will change that tradition, it was just a bit of a musing of mine, since the three point stack exaggerates the already over-sloped hips.

[CharlieDog]

Knox was stacked four point (square whatever) and you can still see his rear is not so extreme. I fully expect him to OFA good or excellent in August as well.

Im going to get a show lead tomorrow and take some better pictures of him stacked properly as well just to show the rear angulation difference.

That picture of him is also a few months old. Maybe two and a half I think.

[Maliraptor]

Ok, here is my old Competition dog. 100% European working line GSD. Not as square a hind end as many would like...



Here is his son-



Here is my husband's first SchH3 GSD-



Again, all working lines.

[Whisper]

*drools*

All of them are beautiful! (And sure the hips of the first 2 dogs are sloped but not ANYTHING like Am. show lines.)

[Equinox]

Originally Posted by Whisper

Trent looks completely normal and gorgeous. He just look like he's stacked three point, whereas GSDs with such sloped rears that are stacked that way just look so much worse. I don't truly expect that people will change that tradition, it was just a bit of a musing of mine, since the three point stack exaggerates the already over-sloped hips.

Oh, absolutely. It's also for that reason that a lot of people focus on how much rear the German Shepherds in the show ring have, but NEVER seem to realize that other breeds (such as Irish Setters) have the same extremes. It's just not as accentuated as much as it is for Shepherds when they are stacked.

On that note, the hips aren't actually sloped Common misconception/misuse of terminology - the hips themselves are, well, just hips! The incline is in the topline relative to the ground, I don't think the hips themselves can be sloped.

Originally Posted by CharlieDog

Knox was stacked four point (square whatever) and you can still see his rear is not so extreme. I fully expect him to OFA good or excellent in August as well.

Im going to get a show lead tomorrow and take some better pictures of him stacked properly as well just to show the rear angulation difference.

That picture of him is also a few months old. Maybe two and a half I think.

Funnily enough, Trent does not stack four square (not certain of the correct terminology either, lmao) very comfortably. Both he, Knox, and the GSDs Maliraptor posted have sufficient rear. Trent is capable of being stretched out more than he is in the picture above, but I like Knox and Maliraptor's dogs better, to be honest.

I had a shot of Trent standing four square before, but that's a year and a half old at least and not a very good one at that.

This is Xandra's Roman's sire, Axel, isn't he?

Love all your dogs. Honestly, the perfect amount of rear for me, I don't like dogs that are lacking in rear angulation, either.

[Aleron]

Originally Posted by Equinox

Many breeds that are stacked four square still have excessive rear, either as a by product or a direct goal of breeding. Not sure if changing the way a dog is stacked in the conformation ring will change that. Additionally, it is not just the AKC. The UKC, CKC, KC, and SV all require the German Shepherd be stacked the same. Different fads between the European and American showlines? Yes, definitely, but the dogs are still stacked three point.

This is a good point - excessive rears are a current fad in many breeds, not just GSDs. A lot of show setters have similar rears to show GSDs - loose ligaments and all. No one seems to notice as much on them though.

Speaking of UKC - they just modified the GSD breed standard. Here's the latest version:

http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/B...evisedMay12012