Vaccinations vs. Socialization?

[Doberluv]

Originally Posted by release the hounds

why do people have such a fear of walking their puppy in a park before it's had 15 shots, but have no problem walking them into a vet clinic to get those shots?

I take puppies everywhere. Not dogs parks, but then I never go to those. city parks, hardware stores, down the streets, everywhere I can think of. and I don't worry about it.

This^

Compromising socialization during the critical period is a HUGE mistake. Yes, diseases are somewhat of a risk. The horrible emotional effects of an impoverished socialization are not risk. They're a known. The dog will be ruined without ample socialization and spend a lifetime in fear and misery. If you wait for a few sets of shots, the dog is coming near to the end of his critical period (window) and it's too late. Be somewhat judicious in where you take the pup. I stayed out of pet stores or dog parks....rest stops. I asked around if there had been any parvo in the area where I wanted to take my pup. Otherwise, I always took puppies for walks, went to stores, bars, up elevators in buildings, parks (just not dog parks), around construction areas with noisy machines going, to visit friends with friendly, healthy dogs, showed the puppies people wearing weird clothing, carrying things, stood and watched a train go by. (not too close) You don't want to over whelm a pup...and they're all different. Some things might be too much for some puppies and some are very durable. My Doberman wasn't afraid of anything much. My little girl Chi was more sensitive to a lot of noise and commotion.

Always socialize pro-actively. Feed high value treats in the presence of novel things. Help make very positive associations of new and potentially scary things. But don't let your pup be frightened. These encounters and exposures must be pleasant experiences.

At any rate, don't sacrifice socialization for anything. The lack of it can be devastating and have life long consequences.

[Greenmagick]

OH wanted to point out too, the article I mentioned, it talked about puppies who get parvo and are unvaccinated tend to make it, vaccinated who catch parvo tend not to.

[JacksonsMom]

I definitely am more on the side of socialization. If I had followed what I read a couple people online were doing (keeping their dogs inside until 2 weeks after their last shots ... so 18 weeks old?) NO WAY would I have kept Jackson in the house that long. He had already experienced snow, grass, mud, wind, sand, etc, etc. He also was around my family's dogs of course.

I dunno, I just never thought anything of it. All of our dogs have always gone out in our yard right away to get started on potty training.

I do agree to take caution and don't do dog parks or pet stores until those puppy vaccines are complete. However that's just to be overly cautious, I really think 99% of pups would be fine.

[Toller_08]

Having gotten a dog at over 12 weeks old who had no (or very minimal) prior socialization, I now err on the side of getting puppies out and about as soon as possible. I socialized Dance like crazy starting as soon as I got her, but because she totally missed her prime socialization period, she's still sketchy with people. Who knows, maybe she would have been that way regardless, but I tend to feel that if I'd brought her home sooner that she would be a more stable dog. She is the only dog I have ever had (that we've raised as a puppy) that is not reliable with people.

I do worry about health and risking Parvo with young puppies, but I've known older puppies to contract Parvo also, so IMO, might as well take them out when they're little anyway and hope they'll be ok. I'm fortunate in that I have somewhere to go with healthy dogs and a clean environment for my puppies to meet other dogs relatively safely, but I still carry them around in small pet stores (seems to be less dog traffic in the little ones), and I walk them downtown and sit in front of malls and grocery stores that are heavily people populated until they're older and are vaccinated. I don't believe in over vaccinating and tend to vaccinate as minimally as possible, but Parvo is something I will not risk not vaccinating for. Knock on wood, we've never experienced Parvo among all of the puppies we've raised over the years and they've all started socialization pretty much as soon as we got them. I think the cons of living with an unstable dog due to lack of socialization outweigh the risk of my puppy getting sick. Obviously use your own discretion on areas you deem safe and whatnot, though. Every time I get a puppy, regardless of how many I've had, I have this same argument with myself. I'd be heartbroken if my puppy got sick, but at the same time, I want a stable, confident dog that I can take anywhere.

[AussieAshley]

Radar came to us with just one set of vaccinations (and zero socialization) and I took him everywhere with me. No dog parks, Petsmart or doggy hot spots , but a street festival, a couple fairs, the park, daily walks, the feed store etc... To me the chances of ending up with a fearful or aggressive pup is more likely than parvo as long as you are mindful of where you take them.

[JessLough]

Originally Posted by Doberluv

Compromising socialization during the critical period is a HUGE mistake. Yes, diseases are somewhat of a risk. The horrible emotional effects of an impoverished socialization are not risk. They're a known. The dog will be ruined without ample socialization and spend a lifetime in fear and misery

Didn't know my dog lived a life of fear and misery. Thanks for letting me know.

I'd take her out before vaccines, just limit dog interaction with dogs you know

[OwnedByBCs]

And then you have the crazy a** breeder who puts it in her contract that all puppies must be vaccinated on a certain timeframe and they must all have DHLPP and Rabies every YEAR! Yikes! That sort of thing worries me a lot, after all I have researched on early cancer being caused by over vacciniations...

Anyways that wasn't the question, sorry for getting off track I think you need to socialize a puppy best you can and really don't let fear of parvo control your life.

[Linds]

We don't have a high incident of parvo here and honestly for me I would much rather get my dogs out in the world. Half the fun of having a puppy is taking him/her out and getting them exposed to everything and learning how to handle and react to their enviorment.

I avoided some places with Traveler but we went to the dog park when he was young mainly because either he came with or I went with Kaylee. Either way he would be exposed to it if there was Parvo at the park. I didn't bring him to pets stores early on that much but he went everywhere else with me. 9 weeks old and he was at an out door concert having a blast.

Yesterday when I was bringing my laptop into Apple I was walking around the outdoor mall it's located at and oh my god I'm brining puppy there when she comes. So many people and sounds and things but very few dogs.

Now, I'll be honest and say I think that the core temperment of the dog is what it comes down to. If the dog is edging on the side of nervy or reactive I wouldn't be willing to compermise on socilization. For a completely stable temperment puppy? Yeah, I think they will be fine waiting for shots. But again, the risks of parvo and the like do not out weigh the benifits of taking younger puppies out to start experienceing life young

[Psyfalcon]

So some people here are saying they've seen more dogs with the vaccine get parvo, than those who were not vaccinated.

Whats the vaccination rate? Seems to be pretty high? 90% or more? If it had no effect you'd expect to see a 9:1 rate then.

Are dogs who get the vaccine having worse symptoms if they do catch it? Did the dog receive a massive dose somehow? Does it already have a poor immune system which could not create immunity to the parvo vaccine, and likewise has little chance against a live strain?

[~Dixie's_Mom~]

I agree that if there's an outbreak or something, keep her home, but I say if you're in a place where the dogs are vaccinated to your knowledge (puppy party maybe?) I think it would be fine. We waited to take violet to the dog park til she older but I mean technically even taking her to the vet could spread disease.