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  #21  
Old 03-27-2012, 09:45 PM
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Yeah, I am not jumping on any bandwagon...he followed, shot, and killed a child. Even if the child fought back, there needs to be repercussions.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:47 PM
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I think this whole thing is ridiculous. If there had been a real investigation then there would be a lot less speculation.

I pretty much agree with Lil on all accounts.
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  #23  
Old 03-27-2012, 09:57 PM
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Yeah, I am not jumping on any bandwagon...he followed, shot, and killed a child. Even if the child fought back, there needs to be repercussions.
The victim was 17. Still legally a minor, but not what I would consider a "child." This kid was 17, not 7. What if Zimmerman followed the boy, then lost him, went back to the car and was then physically attacked by Trayvon?

We just don't know.
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  #24  
Old 03-27-2012, 10:03 PM
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We know he shot and killed him....he is guilty of that. THEN a trial or investigation should come where the situation around is brought out.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:07 PM
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We know he shot and killed him....he is guilty of that. THEN a trial or investigation should come where the situation around is brought out.
Yes, he shot and killed him. However, not every instance of killing someone is a crime. I do agree that they dropped the ball on the investigation end though.
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  #26  
Old 03-27-2012, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
The victim was 17. Still legally a minor, but not what I would consider a "child." This kid was 17, not 7. What if Zimmerman followed the boy, then lost him, went back to the car and was then physically attacked by Trayvon?

We just don't know.
Trayvon was on the phone at the time with his girlfrend. The girlfriend stated that while they were talking, Trayvon told her that he notice a guy following him in a car. She told him to run, he told her he is just going to walk fast. Trayvon said he lost sight of him, but then notice the guy got out of his car to get him. The girlfriend then heard Trayvon say "What you following me for" before the phone was apparently drop and she heard no more. What happen after that is the mystery.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:21 AM
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I hadn't heard of the case until today - it wasn't really on the news here, and I haven't had time to read the newspaper.

A)The whole case sounds extremly fishy to me. There is no doubt that Zimmermann shot Martin IMO. It, however, does not sound like he needed to defend himself. We don't know if he shot the kid because he was black - but he did shoot him. An innocent was murdered.
I think it sounds odd that he even had a gun with him at the time - why would you carry a gun around with you if you don't have anything to fear, or don't want to use it? Martin did not have a gun, or even a knife on him. I can imagine he might have confronted Zimmermann because Zimmermann was following him, but he did not have a gun or any other weapon on him. Why on earth do you pull out a gun if the person confronting you does not even have a weapon. And why do you even have a gun on you?

B)If you saw someone "suspisous" (Martin prob. wasn't doing anything odd, but if you did) why on EARTH would you FOLLOW them? That's such an idiotic thing to do. Siriously, how DIM can you be.

C) Maybe it's not such a good idea to allowed everyone to carry around their guns everywhere just in case? If Zimmermann hadn't had a gun, Martin would have still been alive and we wouldn't be having this discussion. I was a tad shocked when I read 29 US-States allow their residents to carry gun around.
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  #28  
Old 03-28-2012, 07:55 AM
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C) Maybe it's not such a good idea to allowed everyone to carry around their guns everywhere just in case? If Zimmermann hadn't had a gun, Martin would have still been alive and we wouldn't be having this discussion. I was a tad shocked when I read 29 US-States allow their residents to carry gun around.
Well, in most cases you have to have a permit. In a few cases you can carry without a permit if you do so openly, but generally, you have to have a permit.

And it used to be those permits weren't all that easy to get: it took a lot of work. You would have to ask one of our Chazzers who has one how hard it is now.

The people I know with permits are pretty deeply responsible. The problem with Zimmerman was that he went looking for trouble. The people I know would not have started trouble like that . . . they have too much respect for the weapon, and frankly, for other people's business. (and yes, one of them has shot someone . . .that other person had a gun and was actively committing a crime. He chose to shoot at Mike's stepfather instead of dropping it when told to.)

I am generallly supportive of concealed carry permits. In most cases they don't seem to cause much trouble and I think people have a right to defend themselves, and for most people, a gun is the best way to do that in a country full of guns (which isn't going to change). But, I have to concede this. It used to be that to get a permit you pretty much had to show you were a responsible gun owner and a "good citizen" with background tests, classes, etc. In Zimmerman's case, he was SUCH a "good citizen" that he couldn't keep his nose out of other people's business . . . with catastrophic results.

I have to comment on Geraldo's dumb comment and say that as outrageous as what he said was, he wasn't entirely wrong. I had thought the same thing the day before. Had Trayvon been wearing clothes from Eddie Bauer, he's still be alive. A nice polo shirt, khakis, designer windbreaker, loafers . . . no question, he wouldn't have drawn a second look except to admire his taste in clothing.

Of course, most kids, of any race, don't dress like that. Indeed, most people of any race or age don't dress like that, at least not all the time. Mike, my fiance, owns and wears a hoodie in bad weather. Its an inexpensive, but practical garment and it keeps your neck, ears and head warm. Its popular for that reason, and yes, because it allows a sense of anonymity . . . which doesn't mean you are up to no good. A I know many times in my life (including when I was a teen) in which feeling like I was invisible on the street was just a good feeling. I was not a delinquent and I certainly wasn't dangerous.

So, yes, the hoodie contributed to Trayvon's death . . . but doesn't make it Trayvon's fault . . . or the hoodie's fault. It was Zimmerman who interpreted an extremely common garment as a sign of criminality. It was the media (both press and entertainment), who has indoctrinated us all with images that say "black man with hoodie = criminal." Zimmerman took that stereotype for fact . . . he didn't reflect on what he was actually seeing . . . a young black man, in a hoodie, walking down the street. That's it. That's all he saw (as far as we know, and that's all he told 9-1-1 . . . the rest was speculation, based on a stereotype.) So yes, the hoodie was a factor . . .it triggered a very stupid stereotype in the mind of a man who wasn't given much to reflection and who owned a gun. Again, who's fault is that?
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  #29  
Old 03-28-2012, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GipsyQueen View Post
I hadn't heard of the case until today - it wasn't really on the news here, and I haven't had time to read the newspaper.

A)The whole case sounds extremly fishy to me. There is no doubt that Zimmermann shot Martin IMO. It, however, does not sound like he needed to defend himself. We don't know if he shot the kid because he was black - but he did shoot him. An innocent was murdered.
I think it sounds odd that he even had a gun with him at the time - why would you carry a gun around with you if you don't have anything to fear, or don't want to use it? Martin did not have a gun, or even a knife on him. I can imagine he might have confronted Zimmermann because Zimmermann was following him, but he did not have a gun or any other weapon on him. Why on earth do you pull out a gun if the person confronting you does not even have a weapon. And why do you even have a gun on you?

B)If you saw someone "suspisous" (Martin prob. wasn't doing anything odd, but if you did) why on EARTH would you FOLLOW them? That's such an idiotic thing to do. Siriously, how DIM can you be.

C) Maybe it's not such a good idea to allowed everyone to carry around their guns everywhere just in case? If Zimmermann hadn't had a gun, Martin would have still been alive and we wouldn't be having this discussion. I was a tad shocked when I read 29 US-States allow their residents to carry gun around.
In the US lots of people carry guns who are not looking for trouble. A good friend of mine who is one of the last guys to go looking for trouble conceal carries and has for years. Numorous people carry here every day and manage not to shoot anyone. I would not want those laws changed (and this is coming from someone who does not own a gun).

It was stupid for Zimmerman to follow this guy, especially when the operator told him not to.
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~Christina--Mom to:
Sally--8 yr old pit bull mix
Jack--6 yr old Labrador
Sadie & Runt--12 yr old calico DSHs
Pickles & Kiwi--3 yr old white winged parakeets
Yoda--1 yr old Quaker parrot
Solo--12 yr old Senegal parrot
Sheena--Quarter Horse--3/24/86-6/23/11--Rest Easy Sweet Girl~




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  #30  
Old 03-28-2012, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
In the US lots of people carry guns who are not looking for trouble. A good friend of mine who is one of the last guys to go looking for trouble conceal carries and has for years. Numorous people carry here every day and manage not to shoot anyone. I would not want those laws changed (and this is coming from someone who does not own a gun).

It was stupid for Zimmerman to follow this guy, especially when the operator told him not to.
This....

We have guns... but we aren't looking for trouble nor are we going around looking for people to shoot at.

it was mentioned earlier in this thread that he had called 911 FORTY times reporting suspicious people? that seem excessive and a huge waste of the polices time... you would think after that many times they would fine him for misuse of the 911 system
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