Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dog Rescue Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 04-29-2012, 05:44 AM
Dizzy's Avatar
Dizzy Dizzy is offline
Ho ho ho off.
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wales
Posts: 17,260
Default

I guess the key is - never set yourselves up to fail.

You shouldn't allow yourself to be in a position to get bitten. Ever.

It's about thinking about what you are trying to achieve, and learning to understand your dog and his reactions. Don't push his buttons.
__________________
"Dogs are our link to paradise. They do not know jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing wasn't boring, it was peace."


Bodhi is the opposite of ignorance, the insight into reality which destroys mental afflictions and brings peace.

Owned by Bodhi Booglaoo and Fredington Holbein


Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-07-2012, 07:28 PM
j0equ1nn j0equ1nn is offline
Sean Smith
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 34
Default

Yeah I guess that's how I've been approaching it lately. By now I know Sam well enough that I can pretty much always predict when he's about to growl or pee, and those are his only real issues. When I'm alone with him those things almost never happen now. Sometimes it happens when other people are around but I'm always able to see it coming, which makes a big difference.

Also, Sam is SO sensitive to tone of voice. You have to talk sweetly to him almost all the time or he will either get nervous or just stop listening. An exception is that he understands a firm "leave it" command, or a "no" if he's doing something he basically already knows he shouldn't be doing. But when I stay nice with him he listens and learns so fast it's incredible. I taught him this command where I say "this way" when we're out and he has the full length of his retractable leash, which just means "pay attention to where I am and which way we're going," which works every time. He'll even go out of his way to walk around a tree or street light with that command, to make sure the leash doesn't wrap around it - first dog I've had that understood that. He's also learning the bring-it and drop-it commands, so far they are just part of his playtime so they are always associated with fun. Yesterday he dropped his favorite chew toy on command for my fiancee which was a big step.

One new issue is that he's started chewing up paper and cardboard (mostly) when left alone. He usually does it when there was some problem in the morning, like fussing over a dog outside, or growling about his breakfast. Maybe it's a result of his learning he's not going to be hit for acting up and that he doesn't have to be afraid of me. Mostly he wants to please, but when he acts up: I have a box of recyclable paper by the front door which is always his #1 target. So, I could move it. But I figured if I do he's just going to pick something else, and I really don't care if he chews up that paper. So I use at as a decoy. He is still in trouble if he does it, but it's way easier to control things than if he were chewing something I cared about.

I have a question about how to handle that though. I know that by the time I get home, if I yell at him he probably won't connect it to what he did. But when I pick up the stuff he chewed he definitely looks guilty. So what I've been doing is, if I get home and he's made a mess, I just ignore him until I'm finished cleaning up after him. He gets disappointed and lies down and waits for me to finish. Then I carry the stuff out to throw out, and close the door behind me. Then when I come back I do like I would if he hadn't done it, and act like I would normally when coming home and finding he was good, which is hugs and immediate walk. Does this make any sense? Something better I should do?

Overall Sam is awesome. He is the cuddliest dog I've ever met. There've been a handful of people I know that were afraid of pitbulls because of the media BS that Sam managed to win over and turn around completely just by being such a bundle of love. It's pretty set I'm going to keep him. I got him this nice dog bed the other day, and I just ordered him a dog stroller so I can take him on the subway and train. I went with the Pet Gear Expedition dog stroller, so I can let you know how that works out: there aren't a lot of options there for dogs over 50 pounds.

I guess you could say the chapter in Sam's life that fits in the rescue forum is coming to a close. Just looking for some advice on that one last thing. And I hope anyone in a similar situation can learn something from reading this forum. Don't give up on your rescued dog!
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-10-2012, 12:07 AM
Teal Teal is offline
...ice road...
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 1,497
Default

I didn't read every post, but I read the very last one.

Crate the dog when he is left alone. That way, he cannot chew anything up.

As for being possessive of objects - That is ABSOLUTELY unacceptable. If he is possessing objects, especially new ones, stop giving them to him. He shouldn't receive new toys just because you feel like it, because it's reinforcing bad behaviour from him.

He should not have toys that he has access to all the time. You control play time. Put him on a leash/long line. Give him a toy, and a certain amount of time with it. When that time is over, tell him to "leave it" (use the leash if you have to) and give him treats when he does, and put the toy away. They aren't HIS objects, they're YOUR objects that you're allowing him to borrow.

You absolutely need to follow NILIF with this dog. Crate him when you're away. Hand feed him, or have him perform multiple obedience commands before you put down his bowl (is he food aggressive?). Don't leave toys out for him to play with on his own. Make sure he is getting enough exercise! If he's tearing things up while you're gone, he's bored. The crating is for his safety so he doesn't tear up anything harmful to him, but you need to make sure he's getting enough exercise - mental and physical. Stop babying him. Yes, Pit Bulls are loving dogs - but they're DOGS, and this breed especially needs a knowledgeable and firm owner.

And did you seriously order a dog stroller? The dog has four perfectly good legs, doesn't he?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-10-2012, 04:31 PM
Bahamutt99's Avatar
Bahamutt99 Bahamutt99 is offline
Dafuq?
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: High Ridge, MO
Posts: 2,365
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by j0equ1nn View Post
But I did read recently that when people are breeding fight dogs they usually keep only one dog from each litter, and abandon the rest somewhere where they can't sniff their way home.. like by a river.
I am at my iPad so only a brief reply and sorry that I haven't read past the 1st page. But this is not true. Game dog breeders would much rather keep the WHOLE litter and in fact will sometimes hassle people who don't. Either that or they farm some of the pups out to other breeders or friends. They won't know until later which ones are going to be good ones, so they aren't going to dump a potential gem. Dogs that don't work out are far more likely to be shot than dumped. They're not going to turn loose a dog-aggro dog for it to become a liability. A lot of people try to make dog-fighters out to be the scum of the earth, engaging in all kinds of horrific acts. In all honesty, while they are not angels and dog fighting is admittedly a brutal thing, a lot of the people doing it actually do care about their dogs. They believe they are protecting the breed by keeping it true to its roots, and they do produce some incredible dogs.

I am not supporting dog fighting. Its not my scene at all. But I have been a student of the breed since I was in grade school, and i know how hard it is to get the truth about things, especially things which many people would rather stayed completely hidden from public scrutiny. No doubt there are true bungholes who do the things that AR groups like to beat their chests about. But most are not sadists. And they're definitely not going to waste a litter that they went through the trouble to breed. Anyway, carry on.
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lindsay
& the Gravity Dogs


Now entering the land of hypnotic signatures...
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-10-2012, 05:46 PM
Renee750il's Avatar
Renee750il Renee750il is offline
Felurian
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Where the selas blooms
Posts: 94,266
Default

There's a HUGE difference between the old-school game breeders and the Vick-school fighters.
__________________
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
Rumi
Be a god. Know when to shut up.


Good Kharma Tags
Felurian
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 05-11-2012, 04:07 PM
Bahamutt99's Avatar
Bahamutt99 Bahamutt99 is offline
Dafuq?
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: High Ridge, MO
Posts: 2,365
Default

I don't think the Vickers are as prominent as they want us to think. JMO. ETA: Vick wasn't dumping dogs either. He was killing them. :-/. ETA ETA: just saying' there's a lot of fabrication, fable and conjecture when it comes to talking about dog fighting. Where do you think some of the moronic ideas attached to it come from? Someone says dogfighters feed gunpowder, so now wannabe dog fighters are feeding gunpowder. Someone says dogfighters use kittens for bait, and now we have wannabe dogfighters using bait animals. And so on.
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lindsay
& the Gravity Dogs


Now entering the land of hypnotic signatures...
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 05-11-2012, 04:52 PM
Renee750il's Avatar
Renee750il Renee750il is offline
Felurian
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Where the selas blooms
Posts: 94,266
Default

You're so right, Baha. H$U$ put a lot of that out there as propaganda, going after the old lines.
__________________
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
Rumi
Be a god. Know when to shut up.


Good Kharma Tags
Felurian
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 05-13-2012, 05:22 PM
j0equ1nn j0equ1nn is offline
Sean Smith
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 34
Default

Bahamutt99:
Thanks for the info, but we've established pretty certainly that this dog was not bred to fight. Once this was established my interest in how that is done exactly terminated.

Teal:
I appreciate your trying to help but it is a bit pretentious to assume you know exactly how I've been going about things with this dog and start talking to me condescendingly when you've only read the last post of a 4-page forum. First of all, I live in Brooklyn and can't afford a car, and a dog stroller is the only legal way of bringing a dog on the subway, which is the only way of taking the dog with me on trips. I'm not an idiot. You shouldn't assume people are idiots by default. As for crating him, I know what you mean but there are times when he needs to be left alone for 12 hours, and it's unavoidable, and I don't think it's right to leave him in a crate for that long - especially if I have any hopes of him behaving in any civilized way when I get home. So instead I dog-proof the place and confine him to an area where even if he does chew things up he won't get hurt. He also is usually very well behaved when left alone, as you'd know if you read the earlier posts. This is my particular situation, and how it has to be, and happens to be Sam's only alternative to euthanasia. I can tell from your ignorance about needing a dog stroller that you don't live in a big city, but when you live in a big city no-kill shelters don't really exist.

Now, when you say "Stop babying him," what do you mean exactly? You say you only read that one post, so are you referring to my saying that he only responds to a gentle tone of voice? Or is this just you assuming I'm an idiot who thinks a dog is like an animated stuffed animal? I've been getting to know this dog for 2 months, he was also covered in scars on his back when I got him (but you don't know that), and from working with me he's gone from being a scary pitbull in the corner growling over a piece of rawhide, impossible to walk without a pinch collar, to being a typical puppy. So if you think I'm just being a wuss by giving his commands in a sweet voice after noticing it's the only way to not make him get scared or obstinate or pee on the floor, just tell me that right from the start so I know to stop listening to you.

I also find aspects of your advice contradictory. Like, don't leave him toys to play with while he's alone all day, but make sure he's getting enough exercise. I take him to the park every day, where he gets to run around for an hour or so, plus about another hour total in walks, every day. I also leave him toys that I know he can get physical with by himself when I am out. This has been working well except for the occasional ripped up pieces of cardboard from the recyclables box.

I have already stopped giving him new toys since I know how he will behave, and I've made him have only supervised limited time with any toys he's been aggressive about. Is he food agressive? Look, really, before you go talking to me like this, if you really care go and read the rest of the forum first, or at least skim it. YES. And I can hand-feed him just fine, but if he's eating and someone starts petting him, he growls.


What I was really signing on this time to say, before being berated by the typical know-it-all dog expert broken record, is... I have Sam to the point where his behavior is extremely predictable. I find it easy to avoid any situation where he is going to growl about something or even get possessive about something. If he does start to get possessive I can tell he is nervous and I know how to curtail it, there's just a chance of a submissive peeing episode. But the one thing that nobody has told me what to do about yet is this:

What are you supposed to do when the dog is growling?

Not, "How do you prevent him from growling," of "What does growling mean," or "What should I NOT do when he is growling,".... The way it stands now, he has improved a lot with the possessiveness by my following Maxi24's advice (thank you ). But when he is eating, I know that if I pet him he will growl at me. So obviously I could just not pet him while he's eating, but it seems kind of not cool that he's like that.

I've been hand-feeding him the beginning of his meals, and it's like there's no problem. He eats out of my hand. Then as soon as I put the bowl down, he needs to own it. If he growls I've been making him back up, lie down, and stay until I tell him he can continue eating. But it really doesn't make any difference. Today I was hand-feeding him larger amounts of the food and as usual no problem. Then I put the bowl down and ventured a stroke of his head - and he still growled, it doesn't seem to matter what I do. So I picked up the bowl and made him lie down, then made him eat the entire rest of his meal with me holding the bowl. I started gently petting his back during this and he did not growl. This seemed like progress. Eventually I felt he was doing well enough I let him finish it by himself. But I'm kind of shooting in the dark.

So far the only person who has given me clear instructions on what to do about his growling when he eats is that crazy guy I called who said Sam should be in a pinch collar on a long leash all the time, with me holding the end of it, so that every time he growls I can snap the leash and hurt him - to which the consensus on here was not positive. Not to mention that I'm not blessed with the luxury of devoting my full attention to training my dog 24-7.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 05-13-2012, 06:45 PM
Maxy24's Avatar
Maxy24 Maxy24 is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 7,661
Default

I'm glad some things are improving. I would simply back away if he growls and then try something less likely to make him growl. So if my dog growled while I pet him as he ate I'd step back so he could calm down and not feel the need to bite and then I'd do something less close/intimidating for him (something that won't make him growl). So maybe just stand next to him or kneel next to him and toss some special food/treats in his bowl, then walk away. Next time don't try petting again, just try standing close and dropping treats. After a few days of that try one stroke then dropping treats, etc. Build up to petting, starting where he's already comfortable. but if he growls back off and go back to something easier for him. A lot of people don't like listening to a dog when he growls, they feel they are teaching the dog to growl. While responding does show the dog that it works, that is not really a terrible thing. A dog who believes you will listen to a growl is less likely to feel the need to bite in the future, he will always try growling first and will growl for longer before resorting to a bite. In the end you are going to teach the dog to trust you being near his food so the growling will stop as the negative emotion goes away. So showing him that growling worked to make you go away won't matter anymore, he won't want to make you go away.
__________________
~Erin~



Thank you ~Dixie's Mom~ for my awesome siggy!
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 05-13-2012, 10:53 PM
Teal Teal is offline
...ice road...
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 1,497
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by j0equ1nn View Post
This is my particular situation, and how it has to be, and happens to be Sam's only alternative to euthanasia. I can tell from your ignorance about needing a dog stroller that you don't live in a big city, but when you live in a big city no-kill shelters don't really exist.


No, I don't live in a city - I live in the middle of nowhere. I also didn't say I didn't read ANY thing but the last post - I said I didn't read EVERY single post, but I DID read the last one (the most recent at the time).

However, I don't believe every dog deserves to live... especially a stray Pit Bull mix with behavioural problems. So saying to me that it's the only alternative to euthanasia doesn't make me sympathize with you at all.

It shouldn't be "what should I do when he's growling" - it should be "how do I make him stop growling." The dog has problems that need to be addressed, not just ignored.

Hand feed him.

Then hold the bowl, and drop one or two kibbles in. Wait until he looks at you. Then drop another few in the bowl.

Then hand feed him some more.

Then put your hand in the bowl with the food, while you hold the bowl.

Hand feed him again.

Put the bowl down. Put your hand on his back and drop a few kibbles into the bowl. The key is to be touching him already BEFORE he starts to eat the kibble. If he growls, but then stops growling when the kibble is gone and looks to you for more, keep your hand on him and drop some more kibble in. In theory, he WILL stop growling after a few times. However, if he growls and continues to growl with his head in the empty bowl, that will require a different way of going about things.

And by not babying him, I was referring to the stroller. The only use of strollers I've ever seen are people who treat their dogs like children. So once again, you can just go ahead and blame that on my ignorance of how populated areas work

Pit Bulls are typically high energy dogs that need a lot of exercise. It's not contradictory to say to not leave toys with him, but make sure he gets plenty of exercise. I don't leave toys with my dogs (because they'll destruct them and I don't want anyone to get a blockage), but they get PLENTY of exercise because I exercise them properly. I leave them with things like marrow bones, Kongs, or Nylabones when they're alone so they have something to do. I do hope you're not taking him to a dog park!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
diarrhea, food timid, pit bull rescue, resource aggressive, submissive urination

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:55 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site