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  #41  
Old 11-20-2005, 12:27 PM
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Angelique Angelique is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz Puppy
Well, we all have different oppinions. It's great to be on a list that accepts that.
Yes indeed! I agree with you!
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  #42  
Old 11-20-2005, 12:57 PM
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Even though most people here consider my methos harsh, hanging a puppy as a means of punishment is blatant creulty. You could do damage to his neck and spinal cord.

This trainer is not a true trainer. I guess he forgot that as a trainer the punishment must fit the crime. I think in that situation a good loud "NO!" and a quick tap on the muzzle may have been sufficient. (I dont pin down small dogs as you can do damage there, I only pin the large breeds.)

Good luck on finding a good trainer.

-Dixie
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  #43  
Old 11-20-2005, 02:44 PM
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kitcatak kitcatak is offline
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I have read my first post (of this thread) over and I don't see where you get that Leo is dog aggressive. He isn't allowed to growl at another dog jumping on his head? I certainly would do more then growl if a person jumped on me! So, everyone that has a chow, a pit bull, a rottie, a gsd, an akita, etc, should start hanging them by their collar if they ever growl at another dog? Because of the breed? I guess the reason we have all this pending breed ban legislation is because of people with opinions like yours then. It is sad that you feel that way.

Blue- Thank you! Please don't drive into town for a phone number. The roads are terrible and the other drivers are worse!! If you come across her number, let me know. I have been getting some info on trainers and socialization from people around town and I will find something so Leo can have some puppy playtime. He is a very smart little guy and learns things quickly.

Thank you everyone for your support and advice. I really do appreciate it!!
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  #44  
Old 11-20-2005, 06:01 PM
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Fuzz Puppy Fuzz Puppy is offline
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You said Leo went over and started jumping on the other dog (britney, I think you said it was) that's where I got the idea. My point is that's the best the trrainer could do. Not that everyone should do that. I don't like breed legislation, but I just think that the punishment should vary depending on the breed and what Leo did that I intended to explain is unexceptable and I agree 100% with the trainer asking you to leave. I'm sorry you think IK support breed restrictions because I don't. IKt hurts that I can't have my own oppinions (not gonna change anyway)and have a limit at dog to dog aggression. I'm not going bback to this discussion. That really hurts me that you think people like me cause breed-banning laws or that I even support them. I really hate them. Well, I'm done with this discusion. Good luck and I hope you find a good trainer. I'm done in this thread.
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  #45  
Old 11-20-2005, 06:24 PM
gaddylovesdogs gaddylovesdogs is offline
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Taking a PUPPY and lifting it BY IT'S SCRUFF completely OFF OF THE GROUND is cruel. You just don't do that, especially if it's not your dog. That guy is an idiot.

What Leo did does NOT sound like dog aggression to me, at all. I have a dog who does not like strange dogs. Jumping onto a dog to play with it and jumping on a dog to nip or bite it are two completely different things.
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  #46  
Old 11-21-2005, 01:28 PM
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Enlightened trainers know of better ways to modify and manage behavior like that. First of all, too many people are sooooooo sure of what they're seeing and so quick to label it. They see a dog going at another dog and blame that dog who is showing the most overt action. BUT...they didn't notice that the "victim" may have given off a certain threatening body language or visual cue to that "aggressor" prior to the action made by the "aggressor." So many people and trainers think they know everything what is going on between dogs. They only notice the biggest, obvious behavior and fail to notice or know anything about the more subtle language of dogs. We, as humans cannot know every induendo of their language to eachother.

This particular trainer is an idiot. To jump in and hang a dog for something which is NORMAL behavior to the dog's way of thinking is just stupid. You don't teach a dog anything with punishment of this sort. There is such a thing as conditioning, desensatization, socialization and showing the dog what alternative it has to reactiveness toward another dog. Dog aggression is talked about as if it's some taboo, horrible, weird thing. That is anthropologizing (or whatever that word is)... humanizing canine behavior to fit our emotions. It is THEIR way and THEIR language. We have no right, as human beings, a different specie to disrespect and brutalize an animal for their normal behavior.

We have at our disposal humane ways of teaching and conditioning dogs to suit our ways. It is our privilege to enjoy dogs and to modify their behavior to please us, so it is our duty to do so humanely. Lifting a dog off the ground by it's neck is abuse and it does NOT teach them anything but that the human race is to be distrusted.

You can have your opion Fuzzpuppy, but don't expect dog lovers to go along with it.

And people wonder why dogs, (especially protection type ones...."dangerous" breeds) "turn" on their masters and are unpredictable. Geeeez!

Last edited by Doberluv; 11-21-2005 at 01:44 PM.
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  #47  
Old 11-21-2005, 03:06 PM
PFC1 PFC1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixie
(I dont pin down small dogs as you can do damage there, I only pin the large breeds.)

-Dixie
While pinning is necessary to instill submission in a young dog, large breed puppies in my experience are as likely to be injured as small breed puppies-- their joints can be sooooo fragile.
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  #48  
Old 11-21-2005, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
While pinning is necessary to instill submission in a young dog,
Where do you get the idea that it is necessary to instill submission in a dog at all??????
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  #49  
Old 11-21-2005, 04:46 PM
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BigDog2191 BigDog2191 is offline
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The guy is an idiot. Period.

Some dogs are very vocal while playing-- are you sure (or the trainer) that it wasn't play growling? A lot of dogs do that at my socialization class but they mean no harm. Even if it wasn't play growling, I want to see how someone would react if I jumped on them.

It's perfectly normal behavior. And trust me... if Leo really was an aggressive dog that trainer wouldn't have had a chance in hell to be able to grab the leash that he was attatched to and lift him up in the air.

I could've dealt with that A LOT better. This guy, man, he's just... a really bad trainer.

Also, Leo's BEAUTIFUL!
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  #50  
Old 11-21-2005, 04:46 PM
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BigDog2191 BigDog2191 is offline
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EDIT-- Double Post.
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