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  #11  
Old 02-19-2012, 12:53 PM
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Not to make an excuse for it at all, but Simi IS a very vocal dog. It's something I've been trying to manage... however, I do think she's always going to be a pretty loud girl. At the fun match yesterday she was about... 15 feet from the entry way where the agility was happening, crated, and she only screamed when I had Psyche out. Any other time, she was quiet. But even at home, she screams in her crate if I'm working Psyche or Crash.
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  #12  
Old 02-19-2012, 12:56 PM
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I personally find that the working bred GSDs I know personally are very vocal. It happens. Every breed is different. The only time Judge really screams in his crate is when I am working LoLa in front of it. Jealousy can be a wonderful thing!
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  #13  
Old 02-19-2012, 12:58 PM
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I can be out of view of Simi working the others and she still screams.
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  #14  
Old 02-19-2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Chrome View Post
He is not a dog that you can whip a clicker out with and modify behavior...
If you think that's what clicker training's all about.... then maybe that's why it doesn't work for you.

Collies are known for being very vocal too, I knew that when I got Keegan. But I also knew that just because it's his NATURE to be vocal doesn't mean I have to accept it and reinforce him. When he was a puppy, if I put him in the crate and left the room he'd bark/whine for up to an hour or more, waiting on me to come back. It took a LONG time for him to stop doing that - probably about 9 or 10 months - but it's finally worked. Now I can leave the room and he stays calm and quiet. And I didn't use a clicker to teach that, LOL.

At the park he'd always bark at every person and every dog he saw. After months of work, he still barks sometimes but it's gotten much better. And I expect it to get better still. He's learning that if he really wants something - he wants to greet the stranger, greet the dog, whatever - being quiet and calm is the way to get it.

My aunt has four young kids, all diagnosed with fairly severe ADHD. She's never used medication on any of them. It took a lot of work, but they can all manage to sit quietly and patiently. If she can get her kids to do that behavior, I figure, why can't I get my dog to do the same thing??
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Old 02-19-2012, 01:46 PM
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My dogs scream, bark, chortle, growl, etc. ACD's are not quiet dogs either. Zen growls all the time, he lay down and growls, shifts position, grunts. Gets excited and whines and makes yeti noises. He can be demand barky. Rumor is a demand barker and a screamer.

Just the fact that you say you can't really alter a working GSD's behavior says that you don't care to. That's fine. These techniques will work on any dog given time and patience and the willingness to just not play that day is the dog is being an ass.
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  #16  
Old 02-19-2012, 02:15 PM
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I never said you CAN NOT alter the behavior..just that I don't care too. I prefer that he be quiet in his crate and when brought out, he can be vocal as long as the venue is condusive to it. An OB trial, he needs to be quiet, calm and collected while waiting his turn and he is. At agility and Schutzhund, he needs to be ready to go paying attention to me, but being amped up and ready for the task at hand is a requirement for us. He isn't allowed nonsense barking at things or people or other animals.

I use clicker training as part of our training regime. I know how to do it.
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  #17  
Old 02-19-2012, 02:23 PM
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I will say that Knox screams when he's let out of the crate to work. He's perfectly focused on working, but hes screaming for a good minute. I don't mind, so I don't bother to correct it. If we're working obedience, he settles in quickly and shuts up. Anything else and he screams.
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Old 02-19-2012, 02:37 PM
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Well there is a difference between a dog who makes noise because they are excited and vocal and a dog who makes noise because he can't NOT make noise. Maybe just because I've dealt with both they are very distinct to me. Kim for instance will bark a bit outside an agility ring due to excitement if I let her, but is quiet if I ask, and her body stays loose but ready throughout. This is a sharp contrast to how she used to be, which was screaming if a fast BC was running, with her mind gone. With the happy/loose bodies barking I will redirect her enthusiasm to a tug or silly doodle games simply because I can more easily control the reinforcers and, simply, I find letting a dog make racket ringside to be extremely rude in most cases. With the hard eyed over threshold screaming, we played a lot of "look at that" type games, etc. Both come across to the inexperience/uninitiated as "eagerness to play the game" but it is not that simple. One dog is ready and game to be part of a team...the other is hanging on to a tiger by the tail and may look cool to some people but is not going to result in optimum performance in intricate team activities.

And a dog can be completely silent and still fit in either of those categories. It's about energy, not just decibels.

JMO
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  #19  
Old 02-19-2012, 04:03 PM
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I agree with Shai, there's a difference between barking and OMG I HAVE LOST IT screaming. I think what Shay is describing is the latter and I think she acknowledges that's what it is... not just a dog barking, it's a dog over threshold. So I don't know why we're even really having this discussion LOL.

Where people set their criteria is up to them... some people allow barking and some people don't. Some people will allow dogs to paddle paws, some don't. Some allow the border collie butt-scoot, some don't. It's not my dog, not my call, so what you decide is acceptable for your dog is up to you. My only suggestion would be to decide early on what you will and won't allow and remain consistent while training. I can't tell you how many times I have been watching my mom train Georgie (this is the first dog she's trained in over 20 years) and had to interrupt her to ask "What is your criteria for this behaviour?", prompted her for clarity, and had to remind her how to be consistent with it while training.

I also agree that I find letting dogs carry on outside an agility ring is rude though. Auggie doesn't care so it's not a problem for me, but I just don't like it much...
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  #20  
Old 02-19-2012, 04:27 PM
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Personally, I use tug as a reward, not as a distraction. So after a long down, Kimma gets to come up and tug. Same with if she nose targets my hand. After doing what I ask, she gets rewarded with the tug game. I want her to be focused BEFORE we tug, not having to dangle the toy in front of her face first (if that makes sense).
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